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Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: If we take out the staff payment, it looks like the bar is operating at a profit but if we put in the staff costs, it is operating at a massive loss.

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Is this just historical in that it has been run this way for years?

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I am not going to go into the ins and outs of that. I am looking more at the control mechanisms that are in place. On page 3, six points are highlighted. There is a credit policy implemented now, automatic credit and debit deductions. The next two points are particularly important. An internal audit was carried out in 2018, giving a reasonable level of assurance. This begs the question...

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Is it good? That is fine.

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: That is as good as it gets.

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Okay. The next point is the financial results of the bar and restaurant. It states: "The Commission has procured the services of an external auditing firm to carry out a financial audit of the Bar and Restaurant Services 2018 Account." Has that been done?

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Very good. Where is that at?

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Did any issues arise in that external audit?

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I will move on to the two cases involving Mr. O'Brien and Ms Kerins. I am glad the Secretary General made reference to a chilling effect because I am really tired of the phrase. I read the judgments and listened to Ms English's briefings. The Supreme Court judgment has anything but a chilling effect on the way we run our committees. We want to get that message out. I would like to hear...

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I understand that. We won the Mr. O'Brien case in the Supreme Court, however, did we not?

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Perhaps Mr. Finnegan would give the committee a note as to why we are paying costs when we won those cases.

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Can Mr. Finnegan provide us with a breakdown of those costs?

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The most important thing for me is how we prevent this from happening in the future and how appropriate mechanisms are put in place. That is what was lacking. It was not this particular committee but the previous one which acted outside of its remit and went beyond the invitation that it issued. There was no existing mechanism to put manners on it, for want of a better phrase. Is that right?

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: In those particular circumstances, for that particular meeting of that committee at that time. The message is not a chilling effect telling us to stop asking robust questions - quite the opposite. The court is saying it will not interfere with committees if the mechanism is in place and that it will only do so when it is forced into it by a lack.

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I want to get that message out. Ms English might put it a bit more articulately.

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I was trying to give the witnesses the briefing document that was given to us with my own notes, but perhaps that would be inappropriate. It is the briefing document the witnesses gave us.

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The document is crystal clear. It has been very helpful for the Chairmen of the various committees. There is a certain hysteria.

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Some Chairmen are coming under pressure from the press because of how it is being interpreted. It might be helpful to do this on a more regular basis. I thank the witnesses for setting out the functions of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission. The efforts to make Parliament more accessible are very welcome. I would like to know more about the key performance indicators, to use the...

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The figure for claims made by employees should be €10,000.

Public Accounts Committee: Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Appropriation Account 2018 (11 Jul 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I am sure Mr. Finnegan cannot go into the details of the six cases involving employees. Perhaps he might speak about the range of issues involved.

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