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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Ms O'Sullivan just had a discussion with an Teachta Murphy about a letter that was sent to Ms O'Sullivan, the deputy commissioner of operations, the deputy commissioner for change management, and the chief administration officer, dated 24 October 2015 from Mr. Culhane expressing concerns about Mr. Barrett

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: When Ms O'Sullivan received that letter, she obviously read it at that time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: What were her thoughts when she received that letter?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Culhane said in this letter that he found the record of the meeting and the statements made by Mr. Barrett to be very disturbing and alarming. This was his reference to issues such as that John Barrett was not satisfied with how the CAO dealt with issues, that issues were not brought to the attention of legal and were not brought to the audit committee in time. He stated this matter was...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: No.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes, 24 October.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: This is the letter that was sent to the Commissioner, Ms O'Sullivan.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: The letter from Mr. Culhane sent to Ms O'Sullivan, dated 24 October 2015. Ms O'Sullivan had a discussion with an Teachta Murphy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: In the letter, Mr. Culhane is saying he found John Barrett's statements to be very disturbing and alarming. These were statements that the issues would not go away, that the Comptroller and Auditor General's office should be informed, internal audit should be more informed and so on. When Ms O'Sullivan read that, what were her thoughts?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: It was not just a difference of opinion. He went on to say John Barrett "stated in his usual sweeping style that he did not believe him and [just] stopped short of calling the [acting] Deputy Commissioner a liar". He goes on to talk about Mr. Barrett's irrational behaviour.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: He went on to say that "Mr. Barrett is attempting to undermine my professional reputation and my record of achievement in An Garda Síochána".

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: It was his view. Ms O'Sullivan responded to the CAO.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Is the Commissioner aware that Mr. Culhane also wrote to Mr. Niall Kelly, head of internal audit, on 13 October 2016? Has she seen a copy of that letter? We can get it up on the screen.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: Was the Commissioner aware of that letter before she came in?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: It was dealt with quite extensively. We will tease out what the process would be when letters such as this are sent. I ask that it be brought up on screen. It is a letter dated 13 October 2016 sent from Mr. Culhane to Mr. Niall Kelly - Mr. Culhane would have been furnished with a copy of a draft internal audit report - and he writes "In your report you have failed to mention the action...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: He went on to state "You will note my commentary on page 15 in which you have made defamatory comments about my character and professional reputation." Therefore Mr. Culhane is accusing Mr. Kelly, the head of internal audit, of calling into question his character by making defamatory comments calling into question his professional reputation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: He goes on to state, "Consequently I am reserving the right to issue legal proceedings against you for defamation unless you amend your report accordingly." Mr. Niall Kelly was doing a body of work and had a draft report. The head of the finance directorate sent him a letter advising that he was considering legal proceedings and that he found Mr. Kelly's report misleading. He then went on...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: What are the Commissioner's views on that letter sent to internal audit? Does she regard it as an appropriate letter for the head of the finance directorate to send to the head of internal audit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(20 Jun 2017)

David Cullinane: I am asking the Commissioner to comment on the specific letter. It is more than that. Following the McGee report in 2008 a former Commissioner recommended that the finance directorate should take a more hands-on approach. There were five specific recommendations none of which were implemented, by the way, which raises more questions for the finance directorate. Here we have a draft report...

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