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Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Have there been changes since-----

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: What was he beforehand? Is he a chartered accountant or-----

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: From outside. He is not a public servant.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: My question boils down to this: the majority up to this point are current or former health employees or civil servants. I know Mr. O'Brien accepts the value-----

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes, there are civil servants. I said there were three current or former civil servants and I mentioned the Secretary General. Has the balance been changed in this regard? If so, maybe Mr. O'Brien could tell us what the changes are. I do not need to know their names or anything, but are there still three, shall we say, outside people with non-public service backgrounds?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes, but that experience has been replaced by other civil servants' experience.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. O'Brien tell me the makeup of the committee?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Flynn must know.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Who are the two new people then?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Where was he employed?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Who is that? I am sure it is public knowledge.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: What organisation was he-----

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Flynn is now saying there are four-----

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Flynn can understand my asking the question. Regarding the service level agreements, I have tabled a series of parliamentary questions about all organisations across the entire public service, not just those in the witnesses' area. I asked to be informed of organisations where there are payments of over €1 million per annum. I did not go way down. One paragraph of the reply I...

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: When I got this reply to my parliamentary question just three weeks ago, it was stated that the outstanding amount to be paid to 23 organisations was €217 million, so it has improved in the last three weeks to some extent.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: I understand that. From the audit point of view, what is the split of the internal audit function's time between auditing the section 39 agreements, which account for almost €4 billion, and the other €10 billion of HSE directly funded? What is the balance of the allocation of the HSE's manpower or workload or-----

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am trying to understand what the balance is. What is it? Is it 20%?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Twenty per cent would deal with the section 38s and section 39s.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: From a risk point of view, where does Mr. Flynn think the biggest risk is from public funding? Is it through the section 38s, is it equal or is there a greater risk-----

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: There was a lot of discussion here today about getting the financial statements from these major organisations. I know they are not all published, but the HSE gets them. I think I saw a reference to the community health care organisations, CHOs, in the different regions having to get a copy of these. Is there not a mechanism whereby if an organisation has an agreement with the HSE but...

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