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Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. O'Brien. Speakers have indicated in the following sequence. Deputy Cullinane, the first speaker, has 20 minutes. Deputy Catherine Connolly, the second speaker, has 15 minutes. Deputy Marc MacSharry is the third speaker and he has ten minutes. Everybody after that has ten minutes. When there are two minutes remaining, I will remind people their time is almost up.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: The Deputy has two minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: This is the Deputy's last question and he should be quick.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: I am moving on to Deputy Connolly.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: That is fine. The Deputy has made his point.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is a great table to get, and we appreciate and accept that. It is a great summary.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: The Deputy's time has concluded. I call Deputy MacSharry.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: It is an issue of specific legislation and Government policy.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: When was that group established?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Who is chairing the group?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Perhaps the Department of Health would send a note on the group to the committee. As the weekly voting process is under way in the Dáil, we will suspend now until 2.30 p.m..

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: We are back in public session and resuming our discussion with the HSE on chapter 19 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report, management and oversight of grants to heath agencies or section 38 and section 39 organisations which they are generally referred to. The next speaker is Deputy Catherine Murphy.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: I thank Deputy Murphy. I have a few questions, Deputy Connolly may wish to speak again and Deputy Murphy may have some final questions. I will address the audit side. In the HSE's annual report and financial statement for 2016, the section dealing with the directorate members' report is on page 135 and it addresses the membership of the audit committee. The following individuals are...

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: The HSE's financial report was only published this summer.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Have there been changes since-----

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: What was he beforehand? Is he a chartered accountant or-----

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: From outside. He is not a public servant.

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: My question boils down to this: the majority up to this point are current or former health employees or civil servants. I know Mr. O'Brien accepts the value-----

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes, there are civil servants. I said there were three current or former civil servants and I mentioned the Secretary General. Has the balance been changed in this regard? If so, maybe Mr. O'Brien could tell us what the changes are. I do not need to know their names or anything, but are there still three, shall we say, outside people with non-public service backgrounds?

Public Accounts Committee: Report of Comptroller and Auditor General 2016
Chapter 19 - Management and Oversight of Grants to Health Agencies
(26 Oct 2017)

Seán Fleming: Yes, but that experience has been replaced by other civil servants' experience.

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