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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Has there been a delay this year in publishing it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: With respect, that does not chime with what Mr. Watt said in his opening statement about openness and transparency or with the work of the Committee on Budgetary Oversight, which was established to allow for a greater input into the budgetary process. What was agreed and what we were told would form part of the new open and transparent consultative process was a summer economic statement in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Previously, it was published before the NED.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: We do not. That is why I am asking Mr. Watt.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: I suggest that that be the case next year. I do not accept Mr. Watt's reasoning, but I hope that the SES will be published before the NED next year, given that it helps to frame discussion at that event, which Mr. Watt also attended.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: I wish to discuss capital spending. We raised the issue with Mr. Moran earlier. It is accepted almost universally that we have low levels of capital spending. In that regard, we discussed with Mr. Moran the inflexibility of the fiscal rules. What is Mr. Watt's view on the matter? One of my questions to Mr. Moran concerned what changes we were seeking at EU level to enable us to have...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: If I could just-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: No, I must stop Mr. Watt there. If I had wanted an outline of how much we spent on capital in recent years and how much we would spend in future, I would have asked for it. I asked about how the fiscal rules applied to capital spend. We have heard from the Department of Finance and even the Minister has acknowledged today that the fiscal rules need to be reviewed. If it is almost...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: We are three minutes into Mr. Watt's second contribution and I still have not heard anything from him to tell me-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Watt has not said anything.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: I will be more distinct. A debate is happening outside the Houses. The trade union movement through ICTU, IBEC on behalf of the business groups and almost every other group is saying that the fiscal rules in respect of capital spending are not fit for purpose. The Committee on Budgetary Oversight will publish a report that will say the same. What is the Department that is responsible for...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Who sets the expenditure benchmark?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: It is not a fixed amount. Is it negotiable? Obviously, the Government must work within the rules, but it is not-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: It would be helpful if Mr. Watt was able to furnish this committee with the application of the rules in respect of capital spend, and details of what flexibilities have been agreed with the Commission in recent years. Smoothing is one example, and the Department of Finance told us there were others which we had succeeded in getting from the Commission. If there are other flexibilities which...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: I will come to public sector pay shortly. I have a slight concern that, outside the Committee of Public Accounts, there is an ongoing live and necessary debate on the application of the fiscal rules and their fairness, and whether they are fit for purpose. In a Dáil committee this morning, the Minister expressed the view that they were not but I do not get a sense of urgency from...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: That is the beauty of this. Mr. Watt spoke of industrial peace in respect of the new public sector pay agreement. What was the key issue that brought about industrial unrest in the public service in recent years? What was the one issue that drove industrial unrest?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: I am asking about where there was industrial unrest in the public sector.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: The key driver of industrial disputes and threatened industrial action, in An Garda Síochána, teachers, nurses etc., has been the issue of restoring the public sector to a single-tier pay structure or equal pay for equal work. I have met Mr. Watt and the Minister a number of times on this issue and have tried to get a costing for returning the public service to a single-tier pay...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: I wish to ask one further supplementary question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Comptroller and Auditor General Special Report 95: Financial Reporting in the Public Sector
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: I have read all of the previous agreements, including the FEMPI Acts, cover to cover so I know exactly what was taken from workers. From 1 January 2011, in addition to all of the other FEMPI cuts, workers who came into the system suffered further cuts. There was some merging of bands in the Haddington Road agreement and there were PRD changes in the most recent agreement. I fully...

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