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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I do not have to be as careful as Mr. McCarthy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Really what I am looking at is anything-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I am looking at people leaving the market. In 2012, it was 8,500, going down to 3,250 in 2017. There is a downward trend. There is a narrative that being a private landlord is a very lucrative business. If there was much money in it, people would not be leaving the market.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Yes, 86% of them own one or two homes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: On the Land Development Agency, there is a narrative that the State is handing loads of lands over to people to build houses for private owners. Will Mr. McCarthy, as quickly as possible, summarise the concept of the Land Development Agency and outline the mix, the minimum social housing proportion, and the plan in that regard? From looking at the figures, I believe social housing is being...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I thank Mr. McCarthy.

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: We break at 2 p.m. and there are two external people who want to speak.

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Following on from that question, a break clause was mentioned, which is normal in a lease. What is the penalty? Has Dr. Keyes looked at the break clause in this lease and, if so, what is the penalty in a 20-year lease which is costing the taxpayer €7 million, plus VAT? Following on from Deputy Jonathan O'Brien's questions, we are not even sure about the legal standing of the lease...

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: What did Mr. Ó Foghlú say?

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: It is the same idea. If one takes a lease for 20 years, it is worth €7 million, give or take, plus VAT. If one was to stop the lease prematurely, there would be a price of doing so. What would it be? It is not a difficult question, or is it? I ask the Comptroller and Auditor General that question.

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: At what point does this kick in? At what period into the clause does it begin? It seems like a very good deal.

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Perhaps Dr. Keyes can answer. At what point does a lease that was worth €7 million provide a payout of €3.2 million for a building that is no longer being occupied? When does that clause kick in? This is a very simple question. If the lease of 20 years is stopped after five years, is the €3.2 million paid then? Is it after six or seven years? Is it six months or 15...

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: It is very important.

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: If somebody leasing a building to the State is going to benefit to the tune of €3.2 million if the lease is prematurely terminated, that is a very important matter. That is a lot of money.

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Dr. Keyes is in charge of that area. Who owns the building? Am I allowed to ask that?

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Who is the lease with?

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Looking at the fit-out it would seem that the people who did the NTMA building may have got the deal on the interiors. Sorry, that was a Committee on Public Accounts joke.

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Perhaps the committee could be furnished with the directorship of this company. It would be very useful if we received it in a timely fashion so that we could have a look at it. From the knowledge of the witnesses to date, is there any suggestion that there may be a conflict of interest with the ownership of that building and anyone else involved?

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Does anybody in the room have any knowledge of that?

Public Accounts Committee: Kildare and Wicklow Education and Training Board: Financial Statements 2015 (21 Feb 2019)

Kate O'Connell: That is fine. Dr. Keyes has no knowledge of it. Does anybody in the room have knowledge of any conflict of interest between the company that holds the lease for the €7 million and anybody else involved with this? No. Following on from Deputy Jonathan O'Brien's questions on the legal standing of the lease if the procedure was breached, if a contract was signed for this amount of...

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