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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: How many people came off the list? There were 27,103 households.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: What about 2017, since Mr. McCarthy has that there too?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: Is that persons?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: I am missing something. The total output for 2017 was 25,901 units. I presume that means actual units, whether an apartment, a home or whatever else. How many persons in total came off lists? Is Mr. McCarthy saying that 71,858 persons came off the respective lists?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: Did that increase or decrease from the previous year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: How many people is that anticipated to increase or decrease by for this coming summer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: Within that, is Mr. McCarthy achieving significant gains in some areas of the country where he has significantly reduced lists which is maybe being countered by increases, especially on the eastern coast?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: What were the two?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: Okay. Maybe not the two one would expect. Will Mr. McCarthy outline the targets, anticipated outputs and potential numbers coming onto the list for 2019?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: I will bring in the two County and City Management Association, CCMA, witnesses because Mr. McCarthy and his Department rely heavily on local authorities to implement the policy of the Government and the Department to achieve those goals. How do two counties with big populations, Limerick and Meath, feel that those net figures coming down will pan out over the next decade in breaking down...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: Using the overall total as a snapshot, when would Ms Maguire envisage bringing that down to a manageable level in the next decade with regard to local authorities setting themselves targets?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: I have a final question for the two CCMA witnesses. The CEO of NAMA was before this committee before Christmas, and spoke about the properties that were made available to local authorities, and the take-up of those properties. In fairness, both the Department and NAMA provided statistics on that. One comment made by the Housing Agency that irked me at the time was that there was an...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: The numbers will dry up.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: At previous meetings on this issue, I tried to tease out issues relating to central government funding to the local government sector and from the local government sector to the local authorities. I was a long way down the rabbit hole by the end, but I was none the wiser. We will go at it again. In his opening statement, the Comptroller and Auditor General spoke about the "complexity" of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: I do not want to get into that now, as I just want to determine how we can work forward from that point and how the Department will rebalance funding strands, given that funding is embedded currently.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: If there was a buoyancy-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: Are the chief executives of the local authorities involved in that work?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: That review will be welcome. Mr. McCarthy anticipates an increase in the overall LPT take because some people will no longer have exemptions, there will be new builds and so on. I have discussed with the Taoiseach his commitment that all counties should retain their LPT revenues in full. My county, which is a net contributor, would welcome that, but there are only so many net contributors....

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: I acknowledge that these are different Departments, but I will ask again. I appreciate that the Taoiseach's commitment is a political one rather than a departmental one, but it seems extremely strong and I envisage that, given its firmness, the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government is examining how to square that circle as part of the review. It inevitably will have...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Planning and Local Government
(28 Feb 2019)

Shane Cassells: I hit the Secretary General last year with the point about how all things cannot be equal. He has nearly referred to it himself. When the LPT was introduced, I was a councillor and felt aggrieved that the general purpose grant would be diminished by the same amount as the LPT accrued. In real terms, we were no better off. People anticipated a strengthening of local government that would...

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