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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes, okay. Is that the policy at the moment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: I know, but in terms of what is on Mr. Moran's desk, is it something on which he had to do some work to calculate the costs of doing that and calculate how many people are paying it. He will understand why I am asking it because it is something that is new in the public domain. It will cost us money. If this was followed through it would be a cost to the Exchequer but it would be only the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay, but does Mr. Moran accept that it would only be the top 14.3% of income earners who would benefit?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Okay. I have one final question on the working group that was set up by the Department on insurance providers. When was that set up?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: It was called the insurance working group. What function did it have?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Did it examine the possibility of price fixing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: This was the Government working group that was to look at problems in the insurance industry and now there are allegations of price fixing. The witnesses are aware that there was a raid on some of the main players in the insurance industry. Was that something the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, did independently? Was the working group essentially not focusing on what...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: The CCPC.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: I completely understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: I would not expect it to do that, to usurp the role of the CCPC, but I would expect a high-level working group established by the Department to examine the real issues. Ms Nolan might not be aware of it but it is possible that it examined the possibility of price fixing. Could Mr. Moran confirm that the working group was established by his Department?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Did it report back to him?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Could Mr. Moran furnish the committee with any report or examples of references to price fixing? Is it possible for him to find out whether the working group examined that issue?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes, it would be helpful if Mr. Moran could report back.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Could Mr. Moran tell me which Department is responsible for working out compliance with the fiscal rules?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Does the Department of Finance do that in conjunction with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform or by itself?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: So it would be mainly the Department of Finance?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: We often hear from some commentators that politicians, particularly those of us in Leinster House, live in a bubble but it is nothing compared to the officials in the Department of Finance because I do not see any empathy in some of the commentary I have heard regarding the level of pressure on public spending and ordinary working people. That is a different story and it is just my opinion....

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: It was the Minister for Finance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes. Can Mr. McCarthy or Mr. Moran outline the work the Department has undertaken to seek changes to the fiscal rules? We have heard a great deal from a lot of commentators and Mr. McCarthy and Mr. Moran will be aware that the Committee on Budgetary Oversight has done much work examining capital spend with regard to fiscal rules. We know there is some flexibility with smoothing the spend...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2015
Chapter 2 - Government Debt
Chapter 18 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
Finance Accounts 2015
(6 Jul 2017)

David Cullinane: I have listened for the last minute and a half and I have heard an awful lot of technical terminology. I would be very grateful if I could get specifics-----

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