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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Are there averages for home care packages?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: There is not an average in the same way. The witnesses have not done that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: It would be fair to say that, on average, it is probably a better, cheaper option for people who can go home with regard to how money is spent.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I asked these questions because I saw what was happening in my own area. In looking at an individual case, I wonder how it is playing out generally. I asked a question and got a reply in June about community healthcare organisation, CHO, area 7, Kildare and west Wicklow. There has been an increase in the budget between 2014 and 2018. When I asked a question about the availability of a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: There are queues of people on trolleys, and there are queues of people waiting to get into hospital for procedures or operations. We have queues of people who could benefit from home care as another means of care but there is no money to deal with it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: That is perhaps very good investment. We should use the world "investment" as it is part of the health system. If people are occupying acute beds at a more expensive cost, is it not a no-brainer to reconfigure the spend?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I want to ask about the Hannaway report relating to HSE estates. Are the witnesses familiar with it? HSE estates are responsible for maximising the value of the HSE properties and facilities. I have been trying to get the report but I have been told both that it exists and that it does not. Will the witnesses come back to me about that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: It is the Hannaway report, which was drawn up relating to HSE properties and facilities. A person interviewed by Mr. Hannaway stated that the person was requested to carry out irregular transactions by a manager of the estates. That is the substance. It either exists or it does not exist. I would like to have a copy provided.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I thank the witness. Going back to the section 38 and section 39 bodies and the weaknesses in the process, given the amount of money allocated was €4.1 billion, members will recall examining last October chapter 19 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report for the public services for 2016. It reviewed the HSE's framework for monitoring grants for service providers. The final...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Will Mr. Mulvany expand on that a bit? For example, St. Raphael's Garda credit union was a case we dealt with some time ago in which salary increases were awarded outside what was allowed. A repayment of those was to be sought. Is that the kind of example to which the witness is referring?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: The HSE indicated it would pursue that directly. Do I take it that a repayment will be pursued?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: It should not have an impact on the quality of services being provided.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Are there particular section 38 or section 39 agencies that are standing out in terms of weaknesses? Are there good examples or bad examples of those agencies? What are the particular outliers?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Sometimes it is unfair to treat all organisations the same. There might well be organisations that are doing very well and there might be others that are dragging things down. Including them all does a disservice to good behaviour and it does not highlight the ones where there is a problem. Are there particular ones where there is a problem?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Could we get that specific list at some point? Is there a list in existence?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Can I make a quick point because I raised this before? Someone contacted me who was chased around by someone with a clipboard, insisting that this person be a private patient even though the person did not want to become one. This happened when the person was sick and least able point to defend themselves. The person had paid taxes and was entitled to this care. There is definitely two...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the HSE
2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
(5 Jul 2018)

Catherine Murphy: If we are going to have them in, let them come in with the witnesses so we can get the two sides to this issue. If people feel that they are being pressurised, it then drives up the cost of private health insurance and makes it unaffordable for other people.

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