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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: There are many issues relevant to this; the figures are staggering. In terms of the €6.5 million, can Mr. Boland break it down for me and say who got paid what?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I know it has not been spent but the HEA is embarking upon a project that it has been told will cost €6.5 million. If the HEA is embarking upon the same project in Carlow or Waterford, can Mr. Boland tell the committee the projected costs of that project? Otherwise, how will we manage expenditure against the projections?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Before one purchases something in a supermarket, one looks at the price to see whether it is within one's range. What Mr. Boland is telling me is that without even considering whether it was within HEA's range, it went off and purchased the project and does not even know how much will be paid for it.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I know it is but it has to be costed by somebody like the representative.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I knew it was not the representative's fault, it was a governance fault.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: How can the HEA fund something like this? I will not go through all the figures. It is just amazing what it is spending its money on and Mr. Boland knows this. This is contained in a document. I am asking what Carlow IT and Waterford IT will spend their money on because Waterford does not have a good track record in this regard.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: That is an extraordinary reply.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I will not even pursue it.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Can I finish by saying this Mr. Ó Foghlú? I am going to bring the meeting to an end because we have been here a while and we have special supervisors in the House who keep an eye on things so they will be checking on me. I was looking back over correspondence and came across correspondence from Deputy Colm Keaveney in relation to GMIT which was brought to the committee. Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Yes, but that was 15 May 2014 and there were a number of questions to be answered. The representatives might reflect on that after the meeting. Those questions were not answered.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: There were follow-up letters that we were to receive on a number of other issues which were raised and that did not happen. Then there was the issue in relation to the CIT documents. It was not just one document but three in relation to a whistleblower who had given us information. Mr. Ó Foghlú responded to the first document on 15 December in which he referred to the allegations...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Would Mr. Ó Foghlú have received the other two documents?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: There was a second document. We will check the number of documents we received from the whistleblower. I intend to have a meeting to discuss these documents if we do not receive a comprehensive reply on each of the issues raised in them. The reply of 15 December refers to a report and states the allegations contained therein offer no basis for concern.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Can the committee work closely with Mr. Ó Foghlú on the documents we have received regarding CIT? Can we expect to receive a comprehensive report on each of the documents?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I read in a report in The Examinerthat the Committee of Public Accounts was no longer interested in CIT and what was going on in it. That is untrue; we are very interested in it. I raised questions – this goes back to the issue of spending – when €20,000 had been spent on a painting. I am not making an issue of it, as we can discuss that issue at a later date, but that...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: What is the timeframe for Mr. Ó Foghlú getting back to us?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: What is the timeframe involved?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Will Mr. Ó Foghlú consider the question of outstanding information on the overlap with vocational education committee board members and CIT members and so on, an issue which has been raised at previous meetings of the committee?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: The clerk reminds me that there was a reply but the question was not answered.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Yes; we can ask, but that should not delay the response required on the costings and its status from the college and the Department.

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