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Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: I would be more than happy to respond, if I may. All I and the Department have tried to do is to get committee members documentation that would be useful. I sat for many years on committees and got financial information from Departments that was completely indecipherable and set up in terms of heads rather than programmes. What I wanted to try to ensure was that there was documentation...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: All I know is we got the invite. I am not trying to blame anyone. I am just saying that the Chair and the committee has an absolute right to timely, high-quality information. I am very happy to make myself available at the committee's convenience to give members a few days, a week or whatever is required to go through this. I can assure colleagues that from the moment the request came in...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the select committee for the opportunity to bring this Supplementary Estimate for Vote 38 before it. I am seeking total additional funding for this year of €1.392 billion. This request is primarily driven by Covid-19 expenditure, which makes up €1.181 billion, or 85%, of this supplementary. Members will recall that Estimates 2022 assumed that Covid-19 impacts would...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Deputy for raising the points. I will run through the three issues he raised. It is important to recognise that the shortfall this year has been generated by a larger than hoped-for Covid need in response to the Omicron wave and by decisions taken by the Government after the budget. The cost of Covid-19 has come to a little less than €1.2 billion. It was signalled...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: The €1.39 billion is net of quite a number of movements so as the Deputy says it is the €1.181 billion on Covid-19. It includes accessing the contingency fund and then it includes a lot of other items that are listed in the main schedule.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: As Deputy Durkan and I were just saying, the Covid-19 amount is around €1.2 billion and on top of that there were in-year decisions by the Government of €643 million, which gets us to about €1,850 million, give or take. Then, as the Deputy quite rightly says, the cash reserves bring that down and as he is aware, there was an underspend in certain areas, for example on...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: There is a lot in that; it is in main schedule, Deputy.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: I can walk the Deputy through it but-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: -----it will take time. If he would like me to, I can.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: I do and what I am saying is that there is a detailed schedule that gets you to the €1.392 billion. All I am saying is-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: That is because the Deputy is comparing gross and net figures. The net figure that is being sought is the €1.392 billion.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: At a gross level, there is approximately €1.2 billion on Covid-19; there is around an additional €643 million on in-year decisions like Haddington Road and so forth; there are other in-year overruns and then there are net off various things where there was an underspend.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: I think-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: When we are talking about gross-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(30 Nov 2022)

Stephen Donnelly: I will just come back quickly on that because I do appreciate and want to acknowledge the frustration. I fully appreciate this was circulated this morning and that is a very difficult position to be in. I think Deputy Cullinane might have been out of the room but I have offered, if it is useful after this session, to meet up again and go through everything.

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