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Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I hear that the board is going to wind down by June at the latest.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: We will get the legislation at some stage and do our job when it comes before us. In the meantime, the board will be wound up without legislation. Is that what the witnesses envisage?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The board has a job to do and is doing it as well as it can. We as legislators have a job to do, as does the Government. We need this important legislation to wind down this process.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: What does Mr. Ó hAonghusa envisage will be left?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Does Mr. Ó hAonghusa envisage residual assets being left over?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Does Mr. O'Callaghan envisage residual assets being left over when Caranua winds down?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Am I correct that Caranua's intention is to use all of this money for the benefit of survivors?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Are there plans to do a post-project review of Caranua, as we are so familiar with having just received one from another Department about the Pálás Cinema in Galway? Has it begun? Do the witnesses see any issues?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: A review should be carried out urgently because the Department and Government were supposed to learn lessons. I started off by quoting from this document. I do not want to personalise anything but I do not see any lessons that have been learned about this. Perhaps I am wrong. Please argue back and tell me where I am wrong.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: That is okay. I understand that is a mammoth task, given the number of people involved. The general points made were presumably for all types of schemes. Any Department would-----

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Is this scheme not a form of redress?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: We could argue on the top of a pin.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The report states that a scheme is designed for Caranua, including measures to reduce litigation costs.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I will give the four bullet points. There are accountability arrangements, since there have been serious deficits over the past years. The third is expenditure forecasting methodology, which had serious flaws. In 2016, three years after the scheme was ostensibly set up, criteria were brought in for a cut-off point. The fourth point is effectiveness in meeting intended objectives and...

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Perhaps there was accountability on paper, and certainly in what this committee saw. I have read the documentation and minutes. There were significant gaps. I think Ms Hynes and Mr. O'Callaghan would accept that, prior to his time, there were gaps in accountability and in the way things were done. I think Mr. O'Callaghan has accepted that in the past.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Caranua's position today is much improved.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: At what stage did Caranua look at the projected number of people coming forward?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: All the information was available from the redress board regarding the number of people who went forward - between 14,000 and 16,000 - and the number who received it is set out in this report at more than 15,000. That was potentially what Caranua was facing. Some died.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I want to take the focus off the survivors as they have had to cope with enough. I do not even like the word "survivor". I want to talk about the accountability of Caranua. Approximately 15,000 people who went to the redress board were potential clients for Caranua. Is that right?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Good. There would have been some natural loss through deaths and people being ill and not coming forward, but Caranua knew the numbers it was facing. It did not, however, rise to that expectation and ask itself how it would cope with the finite sum of €110 million. It did not ask what its plan would be or how it would do it in a fair, just and equitable way. Mr. O'Callaghan may say...

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