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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Will Ms McPhillips respond to that? Did we compensate him?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Rather than giving the vendor money, should we not have taken money back from him for giving wrong information? Am I missing something?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Instead of giving the vendor compensation, should the taxpayer not have sought compensation on the basis of the information given originally? Someone gave clearance in respect of planning permission. Why does the taxpayer have to give the vendor more than €1 million on top of what was paid for the site. We should have taken back the money we gave the vendor.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: We were right, yet we still paid money.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: The Department failed in court.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: The Department settled out of court. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: If the Department had pursued the case further, would it not have got its money back?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: I am baffled but as a layperson, I may not understand the issue. A vendor and legal person stood over the contract, or whatever one wishes to call it, the Department took on the contract believing in good faith it had planning permission but subsequently found out that planning permission had not been granted, then spent money furnishing the premises and then, ten years later, settled a case...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Who gave the Department legal advice to settle the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Was it in-house legal advice?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: I do not understand it either, perhaps because I am a layperson.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: I must ask about the legal advice that the Department of Justice and Equality got in the very beginning. Was it the case that the vendor himself got that legal advice, to the effect that there was planning permission, and the Department took the advice on board?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Did the Department have any legal advice of its own, in-house or external, on the whole deal?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Did the Department have advice all the way along?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Its own legal advice?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Who made the mistake?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Ms McPhillips is saying that according to its advice, the Department was forced to settle. Is the person who gave that advice not responsible? They actually told untruths. I do not want to say "lies", but falsehoods or something-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Let us hear a simple answer. It is a simple question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: Were any second opinions sought?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Bobby Aylward: What if this was a private business and that was done? The State is a soft touch for everyone that comes along seeking payment because it is taxpayers' money. No-one seems to mind. If Ms McPhillips does not mind me saying this, no-one seems to be concerned with taxpayers' money and no-one is responsible for it. If I was running a private company there is no way I would let this happen,...

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