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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: The remaining €80,000 has been reserved by the HEA so the other costs relative to that €400,000 are being borne by the colleges.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Part of the problem with the HEA and the Department of Education and Skills is that when the question is asked, the answer just deals with what is coming from the Exchequer and does not deal with the amount the college spent. We do not get a complete picture. It is wrong for the HEA to set out the information in that way. It needs to outline whatever the projected cost is, whatever the HEA...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Is Mr. Boland aware of these figures?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I ask Mr. Boland not to give me a lecture. He should just answer the question.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: So €6.5 million is not wide of the mark - it is mentioned in this document that Mr. Boland has.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: So €6.5 million is not off the mark, is it? Is that what Mr. Boland is saying to me?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Relative to that figure how much is the merger of Carlow IT and Waterford IT costing?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: But Mr. Boland should have it.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Please answer this question. Who are the auditors within the colleges? Is there an overall contract for all the colleges?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: So it is Deloitte. Would Deloitte have done the due diligence between Waterford IT and Carlow IT?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: What we have is Deloitte and O'Flynn Exhams doing an awful lot of the work and looking in the mirror about this work. There does not seem to be a transparent system within the colleges where real due diligence takes place and where there are separate entities from the accountancy world or the legal world, looking at this in a way that we get real figures out. To go back to the merger, due...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: How can Mr. Boland answer parliamentary questions in the House?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I ask parliamentary questions when the information given is pretty sketchy and where there has to be across discussion like this to get the real figures out. That is unacceptable. I could go through an FOI request, where two communications companies were involved with CIT and nobody would release the costs. Does Mr. Boland know the costs of those two companies?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Can Mr. Boland find out that information?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: There are many issues relevant to this; the figures are staggering. In terms of the €6.5 million, can Mr. Boland break it down for me and say who got paid what?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I know it has not been spent but the HEA is embarking upon a project that it has been told will cost €6.5 million. If the HEA is embarking upon the same project in Carlow or Waterford, can Mr. Boland tell the committee the projected costs of that project? Otherwise, how will we manage expenditure against the projections?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Before one purchases something in a supermarket, one looks at the price to see whether it is within one's range. What Mr. Boland is telling me is that without even considering whether it was within HEA's range, it went off and purchased the project and does not even know how much will be paid for it.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I know it is but it has to be costed by somebody like the representative.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I knew it was not the representative's fault, it was a governance fault.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: How can the HEA fund something like this? I will not go through all the figures. It is just amazing what it is spending its money on and Mr. Boland knows this. This is contained in a document. I am asking what Carlow IT and Waterford IT will spend their money on because Waterford does not have a good track record in this regard.

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