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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: It is either yes or no. Either Professor McGonagle had or had not told Mr. Boland on more than one occasion that there were issues.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Procurement was one issue.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Would Professor McGonagle have told those officials that there were some difficulties?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Stop drilling and tell me this. Did you tell those officials anything in a general way about what was happening in the college?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: You did.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Professor McGonagle pressed the button and the red light went on and he told them. They went back to Mr. Boland.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Why did Mr. Boland not do something about it?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: So, Mr. McCarthy, they were discussing it with you.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Would Professor McGonagle have told Mr. Boland that he had slipped again, after 2007-2008?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: However, Mr. Boland did nothing about it.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I am going to give Mr. Boland an example. If the Revenue Commissioners turn up at the door of a man or a woman who is conducting a business and he or she is told to get his or her affairs in order and that Revenue is owed a sum of €50,000, they do not wait. The State does not treat its citizens like that. The HEA gave leeway to NCAD to continue to go as it went and Mr. Boland did...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: It is common sense, Mr. Boland. I sat here when the Waterford Institute of Technology and Mr. Boland appeared before the Committee of Public Accounts. It is exactly the same thing. No one wants to be accountable.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Was WIT a failure?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Two failures.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: They were a disaster as far as the management of public funding is concerned. I am absolutely shocked at the attitude of the HEA in respect of these matters. I will tell you why. There are a number of other institutes with difficulty in respect of governance. Can Mr. Boland name those institutes?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: Name them.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: That is a significant number.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: All the more reason why Mr. Boland should manage it better.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I do not accept a great deal of what Mr. Boland has said.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements of the Higher Education Authority 2013
General Report No. 85 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Accountability and Governance on the National College of Art and Design
(22 Jan 2015)

John McGuinness: I want to go on to the merger of WIT and Carlow IT. Mr. Ó Foghlú said the merger was suspended.

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