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Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Has there been litigation?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Is that case ongoing or finished?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I understand that was a settlement. I understand there was an agreement in relation to the-----

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: What are the two cases?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Was the original case about the limit being set?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: And the payments prior to that limit being set were now being taken into the count.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: That had not been set out clearly at all in the criteria, according to the appeals officer.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I am sorry but that is not correct. What is correct is that there was a settlement and the appeals officer acknowledged, under legal advice, that the previous payments had to be taken into account.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The criteria were not set out clearly for applicants. When the cap was set, applicants were not aware of them, nor were they told at that point. It is a matter of accountability.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I think they were not.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: This occurred prior to Ms Downes' time. What she said is not accurate. There were many problems and the appeals officer was quite strong. In the end, the matter was settled. The point I am making is that accountability was absent in that clear criteria were not set out. Mr. O'Callaghan is fully aware of this because it was dealt with on the last occasion, at the previous relevant meeting...

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: First of all, the judge did not find it was in agreement. I am not going into the specifics of the case. The point I am making is that the appeals officer agreed with the board in the end, in an agreed settlement. Before Ms Downes was involved, a cap was set.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Applicants were not told clearly that the previous payments would be taken into account. That is the point I am making.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: With regard to letters Ms Downes mentioned, when letters are sent out to tell an applicant his or her application is valid or otherwise, is it set out clearly that there is an appeals mechanism?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Let me ask the question. Ms Downes will be aware of the background to this. The reason I am asking my question is that what was described was not happening and caused great distress.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: There were quite a number of cases. It did not happen so Caranua had to change its practice. The practice has changed to the extent that every single person who applies and whose application is deemed either valid or not valid gets a letter setting out that he or she can appeal the decision and how to appeal it.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I thank Ms Downes. With regard to page 29 of the accounts, I wish to ask a few practical questions. I am sure Ms Downes will be able to clear this up quickly. Cancelled payments recoverable comprise quite a sizeable sum. Could Ms Downes explain what that means?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Does Caranua have a breakdown of the cancelled payments?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The Chair might get that for us.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The Chair might take a note of this. We might come back to it and decide before the end of the meeting. I am trying to establish the position on these cancelled payments. Might they be where somebody got a cheque for €1,000 or €15,000 but did not spend it, for one reason or another?

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