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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Why not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Why is it not within Mr. McCarthy's remit? I am trying to understand the logic of that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Is the €179 million part of the €439 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: In percentage terms, how much of the Department's funding is not under the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Maybe I will put my question a different way.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: For clarification purposes, is Mr. Griffin accountable to the Committee of Public Accounts as Accounting Officer for that €179 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: That is a start. I have questions on it. Do we have a breakdown on what that money is spent on? What specifically is that €179 million spent on?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Do we have a breakdown of what that money is actually spent on?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. Griffin is accountable to us for money that is spent. I am asking him about a big chunk, amounting to €179 million, to RTÉ, which is approximately 40% of the overall gross expenditure. He is here to account for the spend of money and expenditure from the Department. I am asking a question on what specifically that €179 million is spent on.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Some of the €179 million goes towards the pay of staff.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Is Mr. Griffin aware that some of those more highly paid people in RTÉ, and in particular broadcasters, operate a system whereby they create companies and those companies are more often than not named after themselves? We had a similar issue regarding the health sector, where hospital consultants were using a similar system. They can set up a company of which they are directors. They...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Mr. McCarthy did a report on the health sector where he looked at hospital consultants.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: There was a similar practice. It is perfectly legal and within the rules. I do not agree with the rules, but these companies can be set up and someone can become a director, and tax on a portion of what is really income is paid at corporation tax rate and the person pays PAYE on whatever is received from the company. There were deductibles and expenses that were not allowable, and there...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: Exactly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: I know, but what I am saying is there was a question mark over the allowability in that area.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: So how do we know-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: What I am saying is it is for me to decide whether something is appropriate or not in terms of the questions I put. I am not suggesting-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Communications, Climate Action and Environment
(9 Nov 2017)

David Cullinane: I know, but I am not suggesting anything is wrong. I am suggesting we came across a problem in one area, and we know this is a practice in RTÉ. What I am saying is Mr. Griffin is the Accounting Officer, we know there were problems with this operation in other areas, and how do we know the same problem does not exist. It may or may not. In my view, all of these areas should be...

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