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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: We will move on and I call Deputy Shortall now, please.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: Maybe I can help. We did ask as a committee for additional information. We requested that Mr. Watt's Department provide the committee with key documents outlining the Department's approach to the handling of the nursing home charges concerned, legal actions relating to them including particular memoranda, including one from 2011, and briefing documents for the Ministers and Ministers of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: We did not-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: Mr. Watt could ask.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: Those were some of the documents. Were they sent late last night?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: There is a briefing document but there are no contemporaneous notes from that period attached to it. I accept that Mr. Watt has given it to other committees-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: -----and we accept the challenges. However, we did ask Mr. Watt to try to be fulsome for the meeting and provide as much information as possible. The more information we have, the better position we would be in for asking questions and engaging with Mr. Watt. It is a huge area. I accept that perhaps we were too broad in the documentation we were looking for. Maybe we should have been...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: I thank the Deputy. I call Senator Martin Conway.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: Is Mr. Watt concerned that he might give an inaccurate figure? Is this why-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: We do know that €20 million was paid out to the three institutions that took a case.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: I just want to clarify the situation and maybe walk through it slowly for myself and others who do not have their heads around this whole issue. It is a complex issue. We all know of the cohorts we are talking about. Am I right in saying we are talking about people who in some cases are elderly and in some cases people with mental health issues and people with disabilities, some of which...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: Regarding declarations of interest, I have a niece who was in one of the homes that settled. Both of her parents have died since so I do not know if she is one of the ones who got the €40,000 historical payment at the time. She is a young woman now but she was a child back then. Her family did everything for her. They tried all sorts of crazy madcap schemes to try to help that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: This is not a court of law or anything but we need to work out ourselves if this was fair or just. Clearly if the cohorts we are talking about were overcharged, that was unjust, particularly because they are probably the most vulnerable people we could think of in society.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: The HSE advised residents in long-term care, and some of their advocates, that they were not eligible under the health repayment scheme. That was the signal that was sent out. Some institutions, like Cheeverstown, St. Michael's House, the Sisters of Charity and another one in Limerick that I am not aware of, took the case. They must have been under extreme pressure taking the case because...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: Okay. I will just have to bring in members again. Deputy Shortall will be followed by Deputy Cullinane.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: Senator Hoey may come in now if she wishes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: I call Deputy Cullinane, followed by Deputies Burke and Healy-Rae.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: I think you are drifting off the issue. The discussion is on nursing home charges, but I will leave it up to the Secretary General whether he wishes to respond.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: I thank Deputy Healy-Rae for coming in.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Nursing Home Charges: Department of Health (15 Feb 2023)

Seán Crowe: Maybe we can have one last question. I apologise; some members are taking part in the Private Members' debate in the Dáil at the moment. The acting CEO of the HSE said last week that the health repayment scheme was not quite closed but largely closed. Mr. Watt spoke about those outstanding cases, of which there are possibly 200. Can he explain what is meant by not quite closed? Is...

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