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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: This goes back further than that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: We have to separate the management side of local government from the elected representatives.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Yes, but it is the Local Government Management Agency that is blocking this. The same distinction will apply to the ETBs so we will need to hear from both sides.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I want to make two points about that. First, I think we have conflated the issue we are trying to deal with in respect of the State Claims Agency and CervicalCheck.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I do not believe we have adequately dealt with the issue of the contingent liability as a consequence of that, and it is something we will have to return to in time.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: The contingent liability for the HSE.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Yes. I have had contact, as I am sure have other members, with people following the meeting last week about other strands of liability. A broad range of issues make up that liability and we almost have to decouple them from where the liability lies if we are to get to an approach that involves a different system. Despite what the State Claims Agency says, one has to go legal. What we...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I most certainly do because we are not being told the truth. In terms of the lived experience of people, they would not be contacting us if everything was working out fine. They are categorical in stating that they cannot proceed even to the next stage. We were told that only 38 signed up to the-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Yes. The reason that is occurring is because people have not been able to get their slides to make a judgment call as to whether they will sign up. The release of the slides is an impediment to a range of different aspects. We are being told certain points that do not match with the experience of people who have had a failure on the State side in terms of the way information was relayed to...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Yes, but we should not allow people in this situation to be tied up in figuring out what way a State agency has decided to define something. For example, one of the solicitors involved told me that Quest Diagnostics had been releasing the slides in June and July but it was told to cease releasing them until a protocol was put in place. That was put in place in August. I accept there needs...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: -----and all of that, but the HSE appears to have become very legalistic. It is tying this up in a hugely administrative approach. I do not believe any of us expected that releasing slides to 221 individuals or families would be tied up in that. It is certainly not the message the public are getting. There is a war going on here.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: It certainly shows the kind of underpinning there was, if I can use that term, for some of the banks' transactions. The banks went out and-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Asking Dr. Fitzgerald to do that is one thing, but I want to hear how the whistleblowers felt.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I know. An apology does not necessarily reflect how they feel about the situation. We should deal with that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: When this report was laid before us, there was an expectation that we would re-engage with the whistleblowers, but we have pushed that out and have still not done it.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Can we send an email to all people who are not present?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I envisage part of the problem lying with JobPath. The financial relationship between the particular companies and the Department is not something they will share with us because they will tell us it is commercially sensitive. That is at the heart of this. We are told we are almost at zero unemployment and large amounts are being expended on companies and may continue to be. If we cannot...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I think it has changed.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I have a small issue. Rent assistance and the rental accommodation scheme, RAS, are under the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. I do not know which Department pays for leasing.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (15 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: No, the housing assistance payment, HAP, comes through local authorities.

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