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Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Amendment No. 4 seeks to freeze practices in the context of the Eastern Regional Health Authority. That is a rigid requirement to impose in the legislation. It would unnecessarily curtail the obligations on the executive to deal simply with education as it is frozen today in current or contemporary practice on 1 January 2005.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: The voluntary and community sector is not ignored in this Bill. Section 7(5)(a) stipulates that in performing its functions, the executive must have regard to, "services provided by voluntary and other bodies that are similar or ancillary to the services the executive is authorised to provide." I appreciate the point made by Senators that this relates to service provision in its terms....

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Consultative machinery is of course established in the legislation. In addition I reiterate the point I have already made. Services in this context often encompass advocacy. The Department funds a number of organisations in respect of their advocacy services. There is circularity in the conversation the Senator and I are having about this subject. Clearly the anxiety of Senators is that the...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Negotiations are continuing with the various staff representative institutions. Mr. Phil Flynn has been brought in to facilitate these negotiations which are aimed at addressing and resolving the industrial and staff relations with senior management in the existing health services to which Senator O'Toole referred.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: The negotiations are ongoing. The legislation does not change doctors' existing contracts, it maintains them. I take it the Senator was referring to some other parallel discussion in that context.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Yes. The replacement has been done by what lawyers term "novation", whereby a new party stands in the shoes of a previous party. Under the legislation, the health service executive will stand in the shoes of the relevant health board. There is no question about the termination of contracts. That does not arise.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: I am surprised that Senator O'Toole, with his knowledge of employment law, is not well aware of the fact that, on occasion, an employer can be replaced by another employer and that employees can continue working for the latter with the same rights they previously enjoyed. That is a well-established feature of the employment law landscape. It is certainly a feature of the landscape being dealt...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: The section states: Every contract, agreement or arrangement made between a specified body and any other person and in force immediately before the establishment day—— (a) continues in force on and after that day, (b) is to be read and have effect as if the name of the Executive were substituted in the contract, agreement or arrangement for that of the specified body ... Senator O'Toole...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: On the enactment of the legislation, however, he will, in effect, be a member of a health board because the Houses of the Oireachtas will have functions in respect of the health service executive and the Minister. Committees of the Houses will, as appropriate, be able to summon officers to appear before them in order to question them about matters. Senator O'Toole will note that the...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: I thank Senator Henry for her intervention because it is an object lesson in why we need this legislation. It was necessary to correspond with 11 different health authorities to elicit this information which the Minister, regrettably, has not been able to obtain for the Senator to date. The amendments reflect a discussion that took place in the other House and the Minister responded in...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: We are in a different position because we will be dealing with one authority when the legislation is enacted. The amendment was introduced on Report Stage in the Dáil in response to the amendments that have been reproduced today. I cannot see how Senator Browne's amendments will add anything to the Bill. There is a technical point that parliamentary questions are not a subject for...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: That is a matter for the Chair in the other House. It is not for me to judge. I understand that the legislation will not change the practice that exists in the other House. If a question is asked about a matter pertaining to a health board, for example, the information sought is not given by the Minister and the Deputy is referred to the health board instead. This legislation will not make a...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: The new position is much stronger than the existing position.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: This amendment would have the effect of confining the definition of "clinical judgment" in the interpretation section of the Bill to practice by medical practitioners. This would exclude the exercise of clinical judgment by other health professionals such as nurses and a wide range of allied health professionals. That is not the intent of the provision in the Bill. The Bill contains a wider...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: I must disappoint the Senators. Like them, I am in the hands of the Constitution as well but the Dáil is sitting on Thursday afternoon whereas the consideration of this Bill by Seanad Éireann concludes at lunchtime on Thursday.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: There is what lawyers call a scintilla temporis, a moment in time.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Something could be achieved at that moment. After that it is downhill from my brief perusal of the notes I have before me. I would be pleased to address the points raised by the Senators, for example the question of consultation. The legislation is not being rushed through the Houses without consultation because the Government announced the reform programme 18 months ago and the need and...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: That is the conviction of the Government and the basis of the thinking in the Prospectus report. The amendment is very well worded and is "subject to the provisions of the Act and to available resources" but there is a danger that were we to enact legislation in that very general sense at this or any point, decisions on treatment would be made in the courts instead of by health and social...

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: Any Dublin Deputy would agree.

Seanad: Health Bill 2004: Committee Stage. (14 Dec 2004)

Brian Lenihan Jnr: They have not yet been advanced.

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