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Ceisteanna - Questions - Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions: NAMA Loans Sale (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: When the NAMA Act was introduced was it not up to the Department to set out the criteria? If that is the case, why did it not happen? If it had happened, there would have been a separation. Is the Minister satisfied about the aspect of full disclosure? Surely the Minister or his officials have engaged with NAMA on the matter, given that it is controversial. This is not about interfering...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I am okay with that because it is neutral enough. The Taoiseach said in the Dáil yesterday that all of the NAMA surplus will be used to pay Government debt. That is the understanding of Government. I do not think it should be spent that way.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Is that in the motion we are suggesting? I do not think one can amend the motion. I am trying to visualise what direction will come from the Dáil from that debate on either of those two things.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I completely agree.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: We have talked about this issue before. A file has been sent to the Garda or the Director of Public Prosecutions. How do we separate the two things? We will need to know. Where does it come back in here?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: A couple of issues have been raised. We had been talking about the large contingent liability before the CervicalCheck cancer scandal broke. That was the work we were going to do. In many ways the two issues have become conflated but it has been a useful example to tease out with the likes of the State Claims Agency, SCA, the Department of Health and the HSE in seeking to understand...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: What will happen is the very thing we are trying to avoid. One of the solicitors will go to the High Court and demand the slides, and that will put people through more torture and will do exactly the opposite of what we are trying to achieve, which is the resolution of these issues without having to go the courts for the want of giving us correct information when the SCA comes before this...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: On the protocol, which we have here, Quest Diagnostics is one of the laboratories and it was providing slides until the protocol was put in place. It was told by the HSE to stop providing slides. There was then a dispute over the protocol. We are not getting clear information. A second protocol was to be considered after the engagement with the legal people. When we are looking for the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Why are we skipping over No. 1700B? It is on the list here.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I have concerns that this was not-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I have, yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: There are some very large amounts of money involved, the largest is nearly €5 million. Other amounts include €2 million and €1.1 million. I am concerned about how procurement was carried out. Was there just a list of contractors from which people were asked to do the work or was there a robust system? Can we write to the OPW, if we have not done so already-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: -----and specifically ask that because I have a concern that did not happen in all cases?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Which one is that?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: A tendering process is one thing, but there are other processes, for example, signing off. Does that fall within our remit? I do not know to which committee it would be more appropriate.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: It is about the ability to challenge something that has gone wrong and determining whether the process for signing off needs to be challenged. We probably need to understand the situation. I am led to believe that there were people on site who signed off on the project.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: We do.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: It would be useful if we had some understanding before it attends.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: We do not want to get the information on the day and not have time to consider it.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (22 Nov 2018)

Catherine Murphy: All of us have concerns about loans that were in NAMA. People seem to be back in control of assets that they have possibly gained by virtue of getting back into a position without appearing to have the ability to do that. That is the genesis of this. It is a concern for me. People were not supposed to be able to buy back their loans-----

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