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Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: Notwithstanding how it works and leaving aside accountancy jargon, I would imagine that when the change happened and the 80% cap disappeared for a time, there was a cost to the taxpayer. I would imagine that it did cost the taxpayer money and we took in less because this was an allowance that was greater than what existed in the past so surely it is possible to calculate what the cost was....

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: Dr. Keegan does not have an idea of what that is, however. Has it ever been calculated? Has the figure ever been published?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: It is stated on page 47 of Dr. Keegan's document that section 851A of the Taxes Consolidation Act ensures that Revenue must treat the affairs of individual taxpayers in strict confidence except in a number of specific circumstances, which is correct. Why is that the case? Why would we treat them in strict confidence? What are the specific circumstances relating to exemptions?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: Do a taxpayer's affairs not constitute a legal agreement? A taxpayer has a legal obligation to pay tax.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: It is not a gentleman's agreement.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: It seems to be treated as a gentleman's agreement, however, particularly if it is kept secret, if it cannot be deliberated upon and examined publicly and if we cannot have full public accountability and transparency. Are we treating it then more as a gentleman's agreement than a legal agreement?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: Once the tax is collected, however, it is public money.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: It may be an ideological argument but I would imagine that once it becomes public money, there needs to be an element of public scrutiny. However, Dr. Keegan has given reasonable arguments. I am trying to establish why a person's tax affairs are so secretive because I have raised this in the past with Revenue. Different countries approach it in different ways. We have gone down the road...

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: Absolutely.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: I was only getting Dr. Keegan's opinion on the reason. I have raised my final point previously. The Comptroller and Auditor General carried out a report on it as well I do not believe it was a special report. It relates to hospital consultants who were able to establish companies for the purpose of avoiding income tax. I want Dr. Keegan to walk me through how an individual with a high...

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: But Dr. Keegan is aware of the practice.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: Dr. Keegan is also aware that, for example, senior presenters in RTÉ who are on six-figure salaries do this. It has often been put in the public domain how they would set up companies that would be paid by RTÉ or, in the case of a consultant, by the hospital. The person would then get a salary from that company on which he or she would pay income tax.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: The salary would be a portion of the overall amount, but the rest would be treated as profit on which corporation tax would be paid. Talk me through how that happens. Is that approach available to every worker in the State?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: Why?

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: I will add something that I should have asked. Dr. Keegan stated that there may not be a tax advantage to incorporate. If a large portion of what in normal circumstances would be considered a salary is treated as profit from a company and is subject to corporation tax, can whatever is left in the company be invested in, for example, property or something else? It would not be drawn down as...

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: I had plans to get to Waterford by 7 p.m.

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: I thank our guests and apologise for not being here earlier, as I was speaking in the Dáil. In the earlier exchanges, Mr. Cody referred to tax avoidance. He explained the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. There are phrases littered throughout the report to the committee from the Chartered Accountants Ireland representative, as well as in statements made by others....

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: There is obviously a distinction in law between tax evasion and tax avoidance. Tax avoidance is often seen as something similar to tax efficiency. One maximises advantage through the tax code. One might use it to one's own advantage in a way that was not intended, but it is not illegal. Is Mr. Cody saying that there are instances where the Revenue Commissioners looks at patterns or...

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: I wish to discuss an issue I raised previously. I raise it again this morning because I struggle to understand how it works, and why the system is the way it is. I refer to very high earners who set up companies rather than receive a salary. In other words, what would constitute a salary is paid to the company and then corporation tax is paid on most of this income and a salary is drawn...

Public Accounts Committee: Comptroller and Auditor General 2016 Report
Chapter 20: Corporation Tax Receipts (Resumed)
(22 Feb 2018)

David Cullinane: I wish to comment on enhanced pension rules. This morning, I gave the example of a lot of the very senior broadcasters in RTÉ. It has been reported on several occasions that many of them set up these companies. They are on six-figure salaries and they pay corporation tax rather than income tax on a lot of the money they earn. We were told this morning that this is not being done to...

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