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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Those are for managing the facility.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: The company would not expect payment because it would not be managing anything.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: No late penalty applies.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Will Mr. Cahillane recap on the deadline of 1 January? What is the significance of that date in the event that the PPP company has still not delivered by the deadline?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: What would that mean for the State if the contract was terminated?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Why has the NDFA not told PPP Co that because the agency must sign off on and be satisfied with the standard of these schools, and because the statutory code states the subcontractors must certify their own works, PPP Co must sort that out with the subcontractors and the NDFA will not say that the job is complete until that is done because that is what the code states? Why has that approach...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: I understand that. The NDFA cannot direct a private entity to do anything. The Chairperson spoke about the NDFA holding all the aces because it has not paid a penny yet. The biggest ace it has, the trump card, is that it must sign off on the certification. While I know a building control will sign off, the NDFA is the agency that must be satisfied, so it can say it will not be satisfied...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: The accepted position at the time the NDFA signed the contract with PPP Co was that each of the subcontractors, be it Sammon or others below it, would certify their works. Therefore, the agency is not changing anything. I would argued that the NDFA is involved in changing it now because it is engaged with PPP Co and the independent assessor. By whom is the independent assessor employed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Which authority?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Does Mr. Cahillane see the conflict of interest there? That is ridiculous. It is bonkers. The problem here is that it is in the interests of PPP Co to do what it is planning to do. I understand that the priority is getting these schools opened in September and that the NDFA is dealing with a major mess, but it also has a responsibility in relation to the quality, the assurances and the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Cahillane said he thought they were significantly lower than that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: The capital cost of bundle 5 is €90.9 million. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Excluding VAT, it would be €90.9 million. The maintenance cost for this bundle is €264 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: The NDFA has released the commercial figures. I have them here. They were released in March 2018.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Yes. I can tell what will be paid every year. In year 1, €5.36 million will be paid; in year 2, €9.43 million will be paid; in year 3, €9.49 million will be paid, and so on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Every payment up to 2043 is accounted for, which will be a smaller payment of €1.84 million. The payments increase up to €20 million and more. Let us go back to this because the figures have been made public. A sum of €264.5 million is what this company will get to maintain these schools.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: The capital cost is €90.9 million. If that figure is compared with the subcontractors' figures and how much they have been stung by, there is a significant portion of that capital cost that the company has not paid for. Money may have gone to Sammon, but it did not get to the men and women who delivered the service. The capital cost of building these schools is €91 million...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: The biggest reason that this extortionate amount of taxpayers' money is paid to these private companies is because the risk is moved onto the private companies. In reality, the risk has been absorbed by the subcontractors. The risk is that children who should have been in schools were not in schools on time. Clearly, this is not good value for money given what we know has happened.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: The NDFA holds the aces given that this company will get €264.5 million from the State, but it has not got a penny yet and the law says that the subcontractors must sign off on their own work. The NDFA must not facilitate the company in anything other than ensuring the subcontractors get paid. The NDFA holds the aces. The agency has to sign off on it. It will authorise the cheques...

Questions on Promised Legislation (12 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: I want to raise the issue I have raised on a number of occasions on the floor of the Dáil, which is the programme for Government commitment to reduce overcrowding in the emergency departments. Clearly the Government has utterly failed on this. In my constituency, Letterkenny University Hospital has experienced some of the highest levels of hospital overcrowding anywhere in the State....

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