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Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: So it is quite substantial?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: But RTÉ is not audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Ms Forbes might answer what the relationship is between the Department and RTÉ? Is there a service level agreement for the €170 million? What is the mechanism which ensures that RTÉ is accountable? Ms Forbes is not an Accounting Officer to the people in this room and we are the representatives of the public. What is the accounting relationship between the Department and...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Can Ms Forbes clarify the difference between an oversight agreement and a service level agreement?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: That is what the oversight agreement does. I understand that. However, what is the difference between the oversight agreement and what would be a service level agreement, which normally would be in that type of relationship especially when there is significant funding? There could be a very substantial service level agreement. The HSE, for example, would operate them with organisations.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Does Ms O'Keeffe understand the distinction between the two?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: If that is the case-----

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: -----and if RTÉ has a very robust relationship with the Department, as Ms O'Keeffe says, in terms of measuring performance and so forth, how is that when the Accounting Officer appeared before the committee and questions were put about how the €170 million was being spent, few of the questions were answered and, in fact, the replies were very vague? That is the reason we invited...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It might be helpful if a detailed note could be forwarded to the committee on the precise nature of the relationship with the Department and the oversight models that are in place. The briefing document that was provided refers to "over and above" the statutory requirements. Perhaps we could be given a detailed note on what they are. The document also says that in the interest of working...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: They are the figures. Are all 1,984 people, of whom 278 are part-time casual, directly employed by RTÉ?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: If I need context, I will come to that. With respect, I know Ms Forbes is being helpful but I am anxious to get to a particular issue. I am seeking clarity that these people are directly employed by RTÉ.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Is there a separate cohort of people who would not make up the ranks of that 1,984 but who would be on contracts?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: How many are there?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: What is the nature of those contracts?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: That would make perfect sense if that was solely the case. However, that is not what I have been told or what has been put in the public domain, which I will get to shortly. What is Ms Forbes's understanding of the difference between a contract of service and a contract for service? Is she aware of the distinction between the two?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: A contract of service would be for somebody who is an employee, while the other is a contract for a service.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: In an organisation like RTÉ, it might suit both the employee and the employer to have a contract for service. However, it has been suggested, even on one of RTÉ's programmes, that it is much wider than that and that many of RTÉ's employees are being coerced into accepting contracts for service. It was described by one of the Ms Forbes's colleagues as rife within RTÉ....

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: What are those issues?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: No, I am not talking about gender at all. That is important, however, because there was an issue relating to gender pay. There was a report on it. Ms Forbes need not answer questions on that, although some other members might take up that matter. It is an important issue, and I welcome the fact that there was a review and a report. However, I am talking about bogus self-employment and...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: What does having issues mean? How does that differ from it being rife? Is Ms Forbes saying it is not rife or is she just saying that RTÉ has some issues?

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