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Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: The guidelines were devised by the public sector.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I know. If someone tells me to reduce my pay and I determine how the reduction is to be calculated, it is not necessarily an objective approach. An independent report from Grant Thornton referred to the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine's reasoning for not adhering to the guidelines, namely, that they were excessive, as being adequate and understandable. I wonder whether the...

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: This is how we are calculating pay levels also. This is the formula used.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: The 40% of total staff costs is not the figure used in respect of savings made on salaries.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I do not see that. All I have before me is pay, direct salary, total salary and total staff costs.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I am going by the calculation outlined in the appendix. According to it, staff costs include the figure of 40% for overheads.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Perhaps Mr. Fitzpatrick might clarify the matter for me, as I am unsure.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I put it to Mr. Fitzpatrick that the savings initially reported by the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine were more accurate than the final figure. There was no underestimation. The Department's valuation was accurate. It was considered the Department of Finance guidelines bloated the estimation of savings.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I thank Mr. Fitzpatrick and Mr. Menton for attending the meeting today. I have about five issues to touch upon so if the Chairman wishes to take a break, I can come in a second time just to be fair to Deputy O'Donnell if he wishes to speak.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Mr. Fitzpatrick said earlier-----

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I will try to expedite what I wanted to ask. Mr. Fitzpatrick said earlier that nothing inside the agreement has threatened it so far. Can something outside the agreement threaten it?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Allowances and increments do not come under the agreement.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: My reading is that they do not come under the agreement.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: According to Mr. Fitzpatrick's interpretation, allowances and increments are outside the agreement. Could they threaten it if they were put on the table?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I am simply interested in the interpretation of the break clause.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: People talk about the break clause in paragraph 1.28 on page 10 of the Croke Park agreement. They talk about how the Government might want to initiate it at some stage. The break clause states that "The implementation of this agreement is subject to no currently unforeseen budgetary deterioration." From my reading of that, it looks as though the break clause can only be implemented by the...

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I do not want to put Mr. Fitzpatrick in a difficult position. I agree with the fiscal advisory council that everything should be on the table as we discuss the forthcoming budget and the adjustment that has to be made. I think that includes increments and allowances. I am trying to figure out, in respect of an interpretation of the break clause, whether one could use a discussion of...

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: If increments and allowances do not come under the agreement, they are outside it. A change in something that is outside the agreement could not really breach it, particularly if the agreement can only be breached by the Government side and only because of budgetary deterioration.

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Is pay defined anywhere in the agreement?

Public Accounts Committee: Public Service Agreement 2010-14: Discussion with Implementation Body (11 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Where did that definition come from? If it is not in the agreement, how does it then become defined?

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