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Nursing Home Support Scheme (Amendment) Bill 2016: Second Stage [Private Members] (26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: I assure the House that I will try to speak for less than ten minutes to give everyone a say on this most important matter. As Deputies Calleary and Rabbitte have outlined, Deputies are often the first port of call for issues relating to home care and home help. We often bear the brunt of the frustrations of many people who are aggrieved that the resources that are allocated and the systems...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: I will focus on the disposal of the State aircraft and pick up from where Deputy Alan Kelly left off. In the opinion of Mr. Quinn, why was the advice of the Air Corps that the jet be repaired in the first instance disregarded?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: Given the known maintenance costs cap of €400,000 per annum and that it was known that engine work would be needed in 2018 or 2019, was consideration given to selling the Gulf Stream prior to flying it to Georgia, or were we, in effect, forced into a corner?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: On the more expensive unforeseen works, particularly the figure of €2.5 million cited in 2016 as the estimated cost of overhaul of the engine, how was it derived? Typically repair costs tend to be in a range such that one would carry out repairs to have a further two or five years of flying time? What further flying time would one expect to have in spending €2.5 million on repairs?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: At that stage what would the remaining life of the aircraft deemed to have been?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: Nevertheless, the company that bought it is flying it. Is it fair to say it deemed it to be of investment value?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: The replacement parts were sold to the person who had bought the aircraft. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: Obviously, the Department had been backed into a corner because the aircraft was sold as seen on the workshop floor but presumably the portfolio of parts did not necessarily have to be sold as seen. From the figures I have, the parts were sold at 3.7% of the acquisition cost, but, of course, that value would have been downgraded over time. Even at the estimated value at the time, they were...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: Could spare parts receive certification? Forgive me for asking that basic defence question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: Fair enough. That accounts for the discrepancy between the cost of acquiring the parts versus the cost at which the parts were sold. It does not necessarily explain the difference between the estimated value one would receive for the parts and the ultimate value received for the parts. There is still a major discrepancy between those two figures not necessarily explained by the witness's...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: I accept that. Going back to the engines, they would not have suddenly started to corrode. What kind of maintenance programme would they have been on? Normally airplanes would have semi-annual checks, I suppose, for eight or 12 years. This theoretical potential cost would not have come out of the blue. Were measures ever put in place for preventative maintenance? Military aircraft rules...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: I do not mean to mislead but the rules for civil assessments tend to be tighter than those for the military. That is not to say anything about the record of the Air Corps.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: Okay. Deputy Kelly touched on some of the following but I am interested in Mr. Quinn's opinion, given the acquisition cost of €45 million of the Gulfstream jet in 1992 in the first instance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: It was in service for 22 years, give or take. The asset cost per annum was €2 million, without taking into account maintenance, service or fuel. Going forward in the interdepartmental group, does the witness consider it value for money to buy another jet or would options like leasing be more viable and a better spend of taxpayers' money?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: Given the potential burden that it places on the State for issues like maintenance, and we have seen in this instance the road that it can lead us, would it be fair to say leasing would provide us with some of that flexibility without the responsibility? Perhaps it could be recommended in future.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: Given that the group is chaired by the Department, as the witness said earlier, do we have any information or leaning towards the current thinking? Having had five meetings already, is there any preferred option emerging or are we still in the tentative stages?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: Is that 60 or 70 per annum for the past three years?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: That is enough about the aircraft. I have one or two other questions relating to receipts in particular. I do not know if they will be answered by Mr. Quinn. Why were there no receipts from the EU in respect of fisheries protection costs in 2015 and will that be the case going forward?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 35 – Army Pensions
Vote 36 - Department of Defence
Chapter 8 – Disposal of the Government Jet
(26 Jan 2017)

Noel Rock: Okay. From the same area of the report, the sale of lands and premises realised €1.8 million in 2015 compared with an estimated €2.2 million. How were these assets identified for sale?

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