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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: There was a lot going on with the national planning framework and the national development plan. Obviously, they are very much related. Can Mr. Fraser give me the kind of breakdown I am looking for? It would be helpful for us to see what stage the money was spent at.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: If Mr. Fraser is right and it is the case that the vast majority of expenditure took place before the plan, I will not have a difficulty. If most of the money was spent afterwards, then-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Now that we have cleared that up, Mr. Fraser will understand the point I am making about the majority of the money being spent on the launch. The whole point of having a consultation period is to hear from individuals and get the message out there that this is actually being done. If a small fraction of the money is spent on that element of it and the lion's share of the money is spent on...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It seems that the vast majority of the money was not spent on communicating before there was any plan that there was going to be a plan. A small fraction of the money was spent on saying to Joe and Josephine Soap that they could actually make an input into this. The lion's share of the money was spent on going out to promote the report and all the bells and whistles that go with it as a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The Government may have done it, but which Department was-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It would be helpful to get those details. I have a couple of final questions on the commission. I will move on then.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I will be quick. Mr. Fraser dealt earlier with Note 6, which relates to money spent on tribunals of inquiry and commissions of investigation. He mentioned that €54.7 million has been spent on two commissions of investigation - the Fennelly commission and the Cregan commission - and he said that this figure could increase to just over €60 million. Are there other commissions...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Not in that Department anyway. Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Yes, that is a separate one. Okay. Regardless of whether it is a tribunal or a commission-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Why do we need all of these tribunals and commissions? Why are they set up?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: No. I am asking Mr. Fraser for his view, as the Accounting Officer for-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: No. Hang on a second here. I ask Mr. Fraser not to be flippant in his response. I was not intending to be funny. The issues are not funny. I contend that we are setting up all of these commissions and tribunals because the system itself is not able to give information to the public and to Members of the Oireachtas. We have a very current live crisis in relation to cervical screening....

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The 2016 one does-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: -----and certainly the potential one that is being looked at now. I return to something Mr. Fraser said earlier. It was an interesting point and very topical. He spoke about the difference between tribunals and commissions of investigation. I do not want to put words into his mouth. I want to clarify that he said the commission of investigation would be stronger from a spending...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Will Mr. Fraser remind me of what he said?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Here is the problem-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 2 - Department of An Taoiseach
(3 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The problem with the quicker-and-cheaper model in the context of the commission of investigation is that all evidence given to such a commission is automatically disbarred from being used in evidence in any criminal proceedings.

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