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Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: But it is a different amount to the €41,000.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay. Deputy McDonald touched on the point that there is a paper trail for that money. It goes to the party and it gets investigated by the Standards in Public Office Commission.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I thank Mr. Watt. Before getting into specifics on actual expenses, what would the proposed independent body involve? Were we to move to that system, would it entail setting up an agency or can this be given to someone else to do, as was the case previously?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay. Is this a recommendation that is coming from the commission?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: It is important, when Mr. Coughlan speaks about reputational risk, because when I was elected, I was given a fob and was told I was obliged to fob in to prove to people that I was coming to work.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I found it odd. As I already have reached my 120 days of attendance, can I simply stay at home? That system does not work and I can understand the reason Deputies from outside Dublin would be frustrated with it as well, because it is unfair to them. While people expect Members to come in here to legislate and create laws for the land, they also want them to prove they are coming to work....

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: ----- which then are audited. What percentage is selected?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Okay. Does Mr. Coughlan consider the guidelines stipulating what the aforementioned amount of money can be spent on to be sufficiently specific and clear?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Does it include things like entertainment or food and drink?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I wanted to make that clear because I receive a lot of e-mails giving out to Deputies for the amount of money they claim for entertainment expenses, when they do not have an expenses allowance. If a school visits and a Deputy treats the teachers and children to a Coke and crisps, they get criticised for so doing. However, that is coming from Deputies' own salaries, which I consider to be...

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I simply wished to make clear that we cannot claim expenses for that because that is another public perception that is not the case. The amount of €25,000 is the same for Deputies in Dublin as for those in the country.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Was differentiating between those living in urban areas and those living in rural areas ever discussed? One reason, for example, would be because the rent of office space is somewhat higher in Dublin.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Rent, for example, is higher in Dublin. Was no differentiation thought of for that reason?

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Was that the origin of the €15,000 unvouched allowance? Mr. Dignam talked about a negotiation and I am trying to understand where the figures come from.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: What was the Goodbody report? Was it something commissioned from-----

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: It was commissioned by the Houses to do that.

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Its purpose was to get an idea of-----

Public Accounts Committee: Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, Houses of the Oireachtas Commission - Review of Allowances (23 Oct 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I thank the witnesses for coming in today. While I know we are focusing on amounts, it is also important to keep principles in mind. We can talk later on about allowances in the public sector. If an allowance is not justified as core warranted pay, then it should be reviewed. If there is an expense for a Deputy or Senator that is not vouched, then it should be vouched. We should keep the...

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