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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: I am sorry to interrupt. DIF has absolutely nothing to do with the statutory codes established in the Houses of the Oireachtas. DIF did not exist when those codes were developed. The NDFA is allowing for this to be circumvented, so I want to ask the witnesses, very clearly, what page, what line, what paragraph allows for these certifications to be given without the input of subcontractors...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Let me just finish on this point, and one other small point. I can point to sections in the code that state that the subcontractors have to certify their works. That is the reason there is such a robust code. They are the only people who can do this. The witness cannot point to anywhere in the code that says that this independent inspector can do exactly what the NDFA is doing, which...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: We are dealing with the collapse of Carillion and the collapse of Sammon. We are now dealing with schools that have not opened. We all want those schools finished. We want our children in those schools. We want the teachers in those schools. We want the schools to be a safe environment, with the subcontractors signing off on them and being paid for the work that they did. Let me talk...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: I have not seen it, no.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: This is a building control issue. Had the NDFA no responsibility?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: This is an issue with the Department of Education and Skills, or the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government. From a departmental procurement point of view, is the Department aware that there is a school that was occupied by hundreds of children that does not have certification for gas detection, or fire dampers certification, from the installers?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Is there a penalty in the contract between the NDFA and the company for failure to deliver on time?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: What is the long-stop date?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: All the accreditation and certification for bundle 5 are required by January.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: What is the status of the contract if they are not provided? Does a penalty apply?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Will Mr. Cahillane explain that? The unitary payment the PPP company was expected to get in 2018 was in the region of €5.36 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Cahillane told the Chairman that payments of between €3 million and €4 million had been paid.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Is that part of the contract?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: The PPP company is not being paid to manage buildings because the buildings do not exist.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: If I am a subcontractor - an electrician - working in one of those schools and employed by a main contractor, I face penalties. For example, if I tender for work that must be finished by 31 July, I am hit by a penalty of, say, €1,000 every day I go over that deadline. Has the NDFA put in place a penalty for the failure to deliver these schools on time?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Those are for managing the facility.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: The company would not expect payment because it would not be managing anything.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: No late penalty applies.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: Will Mr. Cahillane recap on the deadline of 1 January? What is the significance of that date in the event that the PPP company has still not delivered by the deadline?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Private Partnerships - Liquidation of the Carillion Group: National Development Finance Agency and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (26 Jul 2018)

Pearse Doherty: What would that mean for the State if the contract was terminated?

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