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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: These are already people's homes. The Department has every intention of continuing to procure them next year, the year after and the year after that. In all likelihood, that person could continue to rent it for ten or 15 years. The landlord could continue to use it within the HAP or RAS system for ten, 15 or 20 years. Why is the Department not proactively approaching landlords, offering...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: What Mr. Doyle is saying is that if we had a very large capital fund we would be able to do that. The Ministers for Finance and Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform have provided very large amounts of capital funding. This is funding that we do not want to spend on an ongoing, annual basis and funding that we do not want to have an inflationary impact in the...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Yes, but it is better value for money.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Is Mr. Doyle accepting that from a cost-benefit analysis perspective, it is better value for money for the State to procure those homes?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Does Mr. Doyle not think there is an onus on policy makers within the Department to be bringing forward better ways for the State to procure than HAP and RAS? We have already accepted that it is a very expensive system. There is a method for us to reduce it over time but we are not exploring it.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: To clarify, 4,000 tenancies exited HAP and RAS. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: That is not necessarily the same as saying that the State is reducing the total use of HAP and RAS by 4,000.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Yes, but they are often replaced with other tenants using those same units. Is that not the case?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I very much welcome that. While the Comptroller and Auditor General would not describe it as non-compliant procurement, it looks like a crazy way of procuring that volume of units. Given that the State has very large capital reserves and the ability to purchase homes which we know we are going to rent out for at least three years and well beyond that, I do not understand why we are not...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I put it to Mr. Doyle that it should not be for the Comptroller and Auditor General, who produces an excellent report, to clarify the funding lines. In many ways, it is to the benefit of the Department that the issue is so complex because changes to local government funding can be very difficult for the people who set budgets to track. Councillors from all parties and none will say that it...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Let me be clear. I did mean to say to the benefit because in my view, sometimes the Department does not want local authority members to be able to find out where all of the deficits in funding lie.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Will the Department take the Comptroller and Auditor General's report and build on it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Consideration of the Citizens' Assembly Report on a Directly Elected Mayor of Dublin: Discussion (Resumed). (26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: The committee is meeting today to discuss the citizens' assembly report on a directly elected mayor for Dublin. We have received apologies from the Cathaoirleach, Deputy Matthews. This is the third of three meetings scheduled to assist the committee in fulfilling a direction from the Dáil to consider the recommendations of the citizens' assembly on a directly elected mayor for Dublin...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Consideration of the Citizens' Assembly Report on a Directly Elected Mayor of Dublin: Discussion (Resumed). (26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Mr. Geissel, I will go to you next to allow Mr. Branagan to come in after you then.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Consideration of the Citizens' Assembly Report on a Directly Elected Mayor of Dublin: Discussion (Resumed). (26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I thank the witnesses. We acknowledge the diversity of the PPN and the unlikelihood that it would have been able to agree a common position. While there is no statement from the PPN, we hope its representatives will contribute as part of the questioning process. If witnesses wish to come in on a question from a member, I ask them to indicate and I will try to get as many people in as I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Consideration of the Citizens' Assembly Report on a Directly Elected Mayor of Dublin: Discussion (Resumed). (26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: The clock is not working so the Senator will have to trust me. She is on four-and-a-half minutes out of seven.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Consideration of the Citizens' Assembly Report on a Directly Elected Mayor of Dublin: Discussion (Resumed). (26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: Unfortunately, we are out of time. We might let Mr. Geissel come back in.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Consideration of the Citizens' Assembly Report on a Directly Elected Mayor of Dublin: Discussion (Resumed). (26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I invite Mr. Geissel to comment and to address the other issue which was raised with him earlier.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Consideration of the Citizens' Assembly Report on a Directly Elected Mayor of Dublin: Discussion (Resumed). (26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I ask the Deputy to allow Mr. Geissel and Mr. McGibney to reply. I will then move on to Deputy O’Callaghan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Consideration of the Citizens' Assembly Report on a Directly Elected Mayor of Dublin: Discussion (Resumed). (26 Oct 2023)

Paul McAuliffe: I will take my slot and if anybody wants to come in for a final round we will welcome that. Only to provide balance, because I do not disagree with anything anyone said - the lack of detail from the citizens' assembly is really disappointing because a lot of people hoped it could be the platform to bring this forward. The alternative could be worse as well. The Local Government (Mayor of...

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