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Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I will have to stop the Deputy.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I will come to Teachta Alan Farrell, even though I am next to speak. He wants to come in as he has somewhere to go. To follow on, Mr. Woods stated there was a disciplinary procedure in place in the HSE which was overseen by HR. Teachta Marc MacSharry asked what sanction was in place. The sanction is a procedure. Can Mr. Woods or another HSE official numbers - not names - of how many...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Given that we have asked for Mr. Gleeson and a number of others from the HSE to attend next week, perhaps the head of HR with the executive should be invited as well.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Earlier, I put questions to Mr. O'Brien about the memorandum the committee will now be furnished with and he was not in a position to talk about it without having it in front of him? Has the committee received it yet?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: My first question is for Mr. Breslin. I asked whether a copy of the memorandum had been sent to the Department. Mr. O'Brien was not sure whether it was sent but he had a sense that there was some communication. Is that a correct interpretation of what he said?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Then I asked Mr. Breslin to what the phrase "some communication" referred and he said the Department was doing a trawl and he was not in a position to say whether something - whatever that is - was sent. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: In what year was that communication sent?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I find it incredible that we are weeks into this scandal and we are only going back two years. That is not a massive period to cover in terms of doing a trawl of emails, letters and so on, but the Department and the HSE have different versions of what happened. Mr. Breslin is not a position to tell me whether his Department received any information regarding the memorandum. He is not even...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The Department does not need to go back to 2008. The specific question relates to the memorandum. It was not around in 2008 and, therefore, I am not interested in what happened in 2008 and what the Department is trawling through. With regard to this memorandum, how in God's name does it take this long to get this type of information? We had this issue with the Department of Justice and...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: No, I am not.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It should not take a scoping inquiry for Mr. Breslin, as an Accounting Officer-----

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: -----to be able to confirm to me today whether some form of communication was sent from the HSE because this would have come from the director general's office. He cannot sit there in all seriousness and tell me that is something that cannot be easily established given that this would come from the most senior person in the HSE to the Department. Even today, he is not in a position to...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: This is important. Who is Mr. Breslin's line manager? Who is he accountable to?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The Minister, exactly. Therefore, information that Mr. Breslin gets is information that is then shared with the Minister. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: In terms of this issue, it certainly would be shared. Is it not the case that it was only 20 minutes before the Minister, Deputy Harris, took to his feet to give a very important speech to the Dáil on this issue that he found out that not all the patients who developed cancer were subject to the audit? It was only at that point that he was made aware of it.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Why was it inaccurate?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I understand that. Why was it inaccurate?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Who gave that false information?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The CervicalCheck programme, yet the HSE director general said at a meeting of the health committee that it was commonly known within the HSE that that was the case.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It is quite incredible, however, that it was so widely known within CervicalCheck while, it seems, not so widely known within the HSE, and not known to the Department, which is the body that reports to the Minister. At the end of the day, the Minister is accountable to the Dáil and the people. If the Minister is not being given pertinent and important information, that is a problem....

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