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Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Then the board in itself is audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General and, therefore, MABS is audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Let us go down and look at the MABS organisation. It is a good organisation and I have no issues with it, but I have questions in terms of the make-up of these boards. There is a board in every county. Let us consider the costs of the board as against the administration costs. This follows from a question I asked recently. The cost of some boards as a percentage of the administration...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Each one is in its own company.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Let us go back to the figures again. I am looking at administrative costs for individual boards. Some are in the single digits at 5%, 6% or 7%, while others, in small counties where one might not expect it, are running at 30% or 22%. Should the Citizens Information Board answer that question? This information came from Ms O'Donoghue's Department. Is she concerned that there is such a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: I am sorry for pressing Ms O'Donoghue on this, but I need to know who is taking the lead. The Department is the paymaster relative to these boards. When we change the percentages into costs, it is clear there is a considerable cost in every board that is not getting down. Do they need these boards? Would that money be better spent on professionals to assist the clients rather than board...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: These board members are volunteers. Is that the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: What about at national level and the CIB?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Will Ms O'Donoghue provide us with the detail of those who are on that board and the expenses of that board?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: I am comparing them to the volunteers who are on the ground. Those who are at the top in terms of CIB are, presumably, being paid the same as every other board member on different boards throughout the State board structure.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: I can understand that. I am not identifying any individual-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: I just want to know how it is made up and how it fits in with the information that I received from Ms O'Donoghue's Department in relation to the structures. What is the timeframe for a new structure to emerge?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Can we get an update from the Accounting Officer there?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: The members of the committee can invite that person in to have another review of it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: The committee never interrupts its work for that place as it is much more important. I presume I am paired with Deputy Connaughton. If Deputy Costello wishes to vote, he can contribute thereafter or he can also inform his party Whip that he is paired with me.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: There is a new arrangement giving the Department of Social Protection the authority to deduct payments for Irish Water bills from benefits and giving Irish Water the authority to apply to the courts for an attachment order. How will this arrangement work?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Given that the measure has been included in a Bill, has the Department carried out an assessment of whether it will require additional staff or powers to carry out this function? How will it determine what its power are in terms of data protection and so forth?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Has the Department carried out any preparations for this eventuality? Has it done an assessment of how the process will work?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: As of now, the Department has not made a submission on the legislation but is waiting for it to pass before assessing its impact, which will depend on how active Irish Water is in seeking court orders.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Has it made a submission?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: As of now, the Department is not making preparations because it has to evaluate the matter.

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