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Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: The fund, in the short term, is being used for recapitalisation, so we do need the money, and therefore we will have to borrow it and we cannot save the interest on it. When the Senator says the fund has been diverted from its purpose, or words to that effect, given that this fund was never intended to be used until 2025, he is talking about a temporary use of it for emergency purposes....

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: What I am saying is that there is no provision in this Bill or, a fortiori, in the principal Act for suspending payments into the fund. The payments into the fund will be needed in any case over the next year or two, perhaps more——

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: ——for the recapitalisation process.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: As of 31 December 2008, yes.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: The Government, in this Bill, has not changed its policy with regard to annual payments into the NPRF. In broad principle I do not think it is a good idea to suspend payments. If we suspend them, when will we ever re-establish them? There is a pensions problem down the line; we have seen that with regard to public sector pensions. I do not think we should consider the virtual suspension...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: Of course we are.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Second Stage (Resumed) (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I will not delay the House talking about due diligence with regard to the banks. Obviously there is a degree of uncertainty in the projections for pension costs post-2025, which depend on demographic assumptions. The Department of Finance has published projections carried out by the long-term issues group, assisted by Alan Barrett at the ESRI. Such projections are kept under review and are...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Second Stage (Resumed) (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: Senator Burke referred to the credit institutions not listed on the Stock Exchange, notably EBS and Irish Nationwide. The Government announced proposals for the recapitalisation of the two main banks and it nationalised Anglo Irish Bank. It has announced that it is in discussions with the other institutions covered by the deposit guarantees, Irish Life & Permanent, EBS and INBS, concerning...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Second Stage (Resumed) (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I appreciate it is meant as a compliment.

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Second Stage (Resumed) (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I thank Senators for a very good debate. I am not the Minister for Finance, but I will attempt to reply to the best of my ability to the points raised. The Fine Gael spokesperson, Senator Twomey, raised the issue of due diligence. If I understand him correctly, he was referring not to due diligence with regard to the banks, which has been dealt with, but with regard to the original purpose...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Second Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I thank the House for agreeing to discuss this Bill today at short notice. The Bill represents an important step in the implementation of the Government's announcement on 11 February regarding the proposed recapitalisation of Allied Irish Banks and Bank of Ireland. It implements the Government's decision that the National Pensions Reserve Fund, NPRF, will play an important role in the...

Seanad: Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Second Stage (5 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: Well, I have some.

Public Finances: Motion (4 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: The Government and the country have been in crisis management since last July, and particularly since last autumn. Most of the rest of the world is in a similar position. Crisis management requires a series of actions or responses until the situation is stabilised and brought under control. While there is normally merit in deploying minimum force rather than engaging in overkill, sometimes...

Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (4 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I cannot accept this amendment.

Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (4 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I will do that now, if the Deputy wishes.

Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (4 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: At present the commission can accept contributions only from the Central Fund. This section will enable the commission to accept funds or assets for the benefit of fund from sources other than the Central Fund if so directed by the Minister. This is effectively the counterpart of the power given to the Minister under section 6 to transfer shareholdings or other assets into the fund. To the...

Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (4 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: There is no particular definition of what funds would or would not be covered. I do not want to set up lines of speculation or conspiracy with regard to any particular category. As it stands, the Deputy could put forward a range of possible scenarios but, in practice, we are not talking about anything as exciting as, for example, selling off the ESB in order to put the proceeds of it into...

Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (4 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: The dividend on the bank preference shares, those of AIB, Bank of Ireland, will go to the fund.

Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (4 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: It is a reasonable request that this be highlighted in the overall report in regard to the NTMA so that people can see where this figures. The Deputy's observations will be conveyed further.

Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009: Committee and Remaining Stages (4 Mar 2009)

Martin Mansergh: I move amendment No. 1: In page 4, lines 31 and 32, to delete all words from and including "in" in line 31 down to and including "underwriting" in line 32. Section 3(e) provides that the NPRF commission can advise the Minister for Finance on a proposed investment or underwriting about which the Minister proposes to give a direction under section 19A or 19B. There is a bit of a mismatch here...

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