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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: I think we should so that we can deal with issues relevant to the correspondence today. The point I made earlier is that in one piece of correspondence it refers to due diligence at €58,999 and in the Munster technical university project it refers to due diligence at €350,185 and in the south east due diligence is at a cost of €42,742. When one sees the figures across...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Is there any other business?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: They will not be before us until the autumn but they are putting information together.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Not yet. We will send a reminder.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: It is a relatively large report so it will be a while before we finish it. I want to get the two or three reports that are before us sorted out the week after next. That is a big report as it covers the Irish Glass Bottle site as well so immediately after that we will conclude it.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: We will leave it in the clerk's capable hands, not in mine. Are there any other matters? No. Our next meeting has been agreed as part of our work programme, so we will now turn to today's business and call in the witnesses.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Before we begin, I remind members, witnesses and those in the public gallery that they should turn off their mobile phones. I advise witnesses that they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they are to give to the committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in regard to a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: We also have Mr. Colin Menton from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. I call the Comptroller and Auditor General to make his opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: I invite Ms O'Donoghue to make her opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Thank you very much, Ms O'Donoghue. Can we publish your statement, please?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Your time is up, now that you mention it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: I seek clarification on the question raised in relation to overpayments. There were 377 overpayments in 2013 in respect of farm assist. Five claimants were overpaid to the tune of €600,000, which gives an average overpayment of €120,000.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: The farm assist figures. Can Ms O’Donoghue explain that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: As stated, five claimants were overpaid by €600,000. What was the highest overpayment? The average is €120,000, in respect of the five. Did the same happen in 2014? What was the figure then?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: It is in the documentation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: I am just asking about the farm assist scheme, mentioned in chapter 12.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: One point what?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: What was the largest single overpayment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: In 2013, 377 overpayments were detected.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 10 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 11 - Control of Supplementary Welfare Allowances
Chapter 12 - Farm Assist
Social Insurance Fund 2013
(28 May 2015)

John McGuinness: Five claimants have been overpaid €600,000. That comes from the 2013 figures. Ms O'Donoghue said that in 2014 there were 378 overpayments.

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