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Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It is not, with respect. I will go a bit further to make it a bit easier for Mr. Breslin. At the time the circular was issued, the circular that was sent to consultants pertained to, as we now know, 209 women. At that point only a small number of them had been informed. Discretion was given to consultants as to whether they should tell the patients. They knew the scale of it at that...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I do not think Mr. Breslin understands the point I am making. There was a court case in 2014 which was settled. At that point, did people in the HSE know about Vicky Phelan's situation?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: My point is that certain people in the HSE knew that there had been false readings or worse in the cases of 209 women and a conscious decision was taken that discretion should be given to consultants and a circular was sent out in that regard. Surely, it would have been important for the Department also to have been made aware of that?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Is that what Dr. Holohan would tell Emma Mhic Mhathúna and Vicky Phelan?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Why would he not tell them that?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I understand that there are two types of cervical cancer. We have been through this.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: With respect, through that response Dr. Holohan is giving comfort to those who failed to communicate the information.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Dr. Holohan is giving comfort to those people.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I will stop Dr. Holohan there because that is what I am focused on: that the non-disclosure of that information was wrong. The non-disclosure of the information was partly due to the circular that was issued. We all agree that the non-disclosure was wrong. A conscious decision was made, for whatever reason, to give consultants discretion not to inform all of the patients and it is clear...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The Comptroller and Auditor General previously appeared before the committee in regard to issues relating to An Garda Síochána and information not being given. The Comptroller and Auditor General was clear that the information should be given to him as a matter of course and he would make the decision on its importance. Mr. Breslin is essentially stating that those within the HSE...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: However, Mr. Breslin is not making such decisions. With respect, he is almost excusing away-----

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: -----why he was not given the information.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I remind Dr. Holohan that I am putting questions to Mr. Breslin and would appreciate if he did not shake his head.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I move on to Dr. Crowley. I do not mean this in a flippant way but, rather, a genuinely inquisitorial one. What is the purpose of Dr. Crowley appearing before the committee today? On which area is he here to answer questions?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: And Ms Lennon.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: What type of questions was it anticipated that she would answer? On what issue is she here to answer questions?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: And Mr. Woods.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Which of those three witnesses is qualified to answer questions on the circular that was drafted and sent to hospital consultants and which gave them discretion?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Is that not the point? The director general comes in for an hour and a half and then leaves but the critical issue pertains to decisions that were made by certain individuals and yet none of these witnesses are in a position to answer questions in that regard. I find that extraordinary and all the more reason why those central to those decisions should be brought before us next week. ...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Was it enforced? Was it used in this instance?

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