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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the Local Government Fund
2017 Financial Statements of the National Training Fund
2017 Financial Statements of the Economic and Social Research Institute
2017 Financial Statements of the Abbey Theatre
(23 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I put it to the Chairman that I appreciate we are bringing Accounting Officers in because there is not what we would consider to be a timely presentation of accounts but there is not any timeframe set out in the code. Every opening statement states the same. If we are to include this in one of our periodic reports, that may be something that should be looked at. I do not see how we can...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the Local Government Fund
2017 Financial Statements of the National Training Fund
2017 Financial Statements of the Economic and Social Research Institute
2017 Financial Statements of the Abbey Theatre
(23 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I will ask one final question then. I would imagine this has come up before our time as members of the Committee of Public Accounts. Is there a good reason there was not a specific requirement in terms of a timeframe included in the code, which states, as Deputy Catherine Murphy has it, "as soon as may be", after the end of the financial year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the Local Government Fund
2017 Financial Statements of the National Training Fund
2017 Financial Statements of the Economic and Social Research Institute
2017 Financial Statements of the Abbey Theatre
(23 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Is that for flexibility purposes?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Financial Statements of the Local Government Fund
2017 Financial Statements of the National Training Fund
2017 Financial Statements of the Economic and Social Research Institute
2017 Financial Statements of the Abbey Theatre
(23 May 2018)

David Cullinane: We could write to DPER and find out what is the logic of not having a specific timeframe.

European Communities (Brexit) Bill 2017: Second Stage [Private Members] (17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The Bill seeks to amend the European Communities Act 1972 and requires the Government to update the Oireachtas formally on Brexit developments and negotiations and on preserving the rights of Irish citizens in the North. As Teachta Adams said, we acknowledge the Government has in recent times agreed and followed through on its commitment to update the House on a regular basis. The...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I have just received answers to specific questions posed by Deputies, including some of Teachta Kelly's questions. I asked many detailed questions about the times and dates of each of the three memos. I asked who signed off on the memos and all associated correspondence; who sent the memos to the Department; who received the memos; for sight of all communication between the HSE and the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: We are supposed to start at 9 o'clock, and we received five pages of important information this morning. We have to digest it.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The Secretary General's opening statement says that "we will learn lessons", but from the HSE's perspective it seems to be the same old story. It has an acting director general, and it is still providing information very late in the day. There are no lessons being learned about public accountability, that is for sure.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I would say an hour, until 10.30 a.m.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I welcome the witnesses. We hear an awful lot about duty of candour in respect of whether women and patients should be given information through full disclosure. There is another issue in respect of duty of candour, namely, people like the witnesses giving information to committees like this one. For a lot of people in this room the witnesses have failed in that duty. Some of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: We need the information. We are referring to September 2017, a few weeks before Vicky Phelan's case was made public, and no decision had still been taken to inform the women. There was still a strategy of containment. Will Mr. Breslin explain why the Minister for Health was not informed of these issues before he learned about them in the media, or wherever he learned about them? Why...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: My question was about information that had been given to the Minister for Health. I will be more specific for Mr. Breslin before he comes back in. Last week we had a very lengthy discussion on what information the Department had. While I put my points robustly, fairly and respectfully, I am very angry with the Chief Medical Officer about the fact that we sat here for one and a half hours...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: That is not what I asked Mr. Breslin.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I will have to stop Mr. Breslin because I am getting very angry. He knows the question I am putting to him and I am not going to listen to waffle from any Accounting Officer, given how angry committee members and I feel. We are not talking about trawls of emails and what was sitting on people's desks; we are talking about information of which the Chief Medical Officer had sight and had...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I am looking for the reason. Perhaps Mr. Breslin might answer the question.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: With respect to Mr. Breslin - m apologies to the Chairman - I am seething with anger. I am trying to get answers to questions. We are trying to drag information out of the HSE and the Department, minute by minute, day by day and meeting by meeting. There is a drip feed of information and Mr. Breslin is telling me what he did last week. I am asking what was done in 2016 and subsequently,...

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Politically, who would have had to go out? If there was a concern within the HSE and CervicalCheck that a media strategy had to be put in place because of the risks to the organisation and the programme and that some of the women might go to the media and the programme would be compromised, who would have had to go out and defend it politically?

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: That is fine. I am asking Mr. Breslin now about the March 2016 memo and the July memos which talk about putting a media strategy in place and about fears and risk in terms of the programme. I am asking - if that did happen - who would have been the person who would have had to answer questions on that in a political sense?

Public Accounts Committee: Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency (Resumed)
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE (Resumed)
(17 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The Minister.

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