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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: However, they report back to the Secretary General.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: However, the Department gets the report.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: The audit report goes to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Environment, Culture and the Gaeltacht.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: The committee might then question the Secretary General on it also and she would answer questions on the content of the audit reports.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I thank Ms Tallon and her officials for attending. The Chairman mentioned at the beginning of the meeting the time spent discussing issues on the previous occasion Ms Tallon appeared before the committee and I take full blame and responsibility for that because we went over the Poolbeg incinerator proposals in detail. I will be as brief as possible addressing that but we received...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I will take up with them how the value for money audits were carried out. People and public representatives have questioned the need for the incinerator, its location, size and cost, the potential liability on the taxpayer and the mismanagement of the project for more than a decade. We went through many of these issues when Ms Tallon appeared before the committee previously, and I will not...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Ms Tallon referred to direct accountability. It has been like pulling teeth out of officials for public representatives in this constituency because we have witnessed the finances escalating over a decade to more than €80 million with nothing being built. I will go through the client representative costs and the detailed breakdown Ms Tallon provided the committee a few months ago...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I take it that met on a formal basis because the project executive board did not.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Does Ms Tallon understand the concern I am raising about where accountability lies? She mentioned a process under way in Dublin City Council but the councillors have been trying to stop this project since it began.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Yes, it is, but who takes responsibility for the problems laid out in the audit report?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: It is the city manager's responsibility but, ultimately, he is responsible to somebody.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: The city manager?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Who is the city manager elected by?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: But Dublin City Council members have no responsibility for waste management. That has always been the problem. Even though the councillors voted against the incinerator ever getting off the ground, it still went ahead because the city manager and his officials wanted it to and, therefore, he was not held accountable or responsible to the city councillors. Ms Tallon called him into her...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: But some €8 million or €9 million of Exchequer money has gone into it from the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: It is Exchequer-funded, therefore, in part.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: There is because the money that has been spent is taxpayers' money. Exchequer money did come in from the Department initially. It is tied up in the more than €80 million that has been spent.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 16 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Which was a part of the incinerator project. It is part of the breakdown of costs Ms Tallon provided to me herself. Of course the client representative cost is part of the project and that is Exchequer funding, which came from her Department. She, therefore, has a responsibility for that money. In addition, because the LGAS is under the aegis of the Department and it carried out the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: I congratulate all those working in the secretariat on their hard work. We set ourselves an almost impossible timeline for the amount of work we needed to do. We managed to arrange all the meetings and during proceedings we got more detailed information at the Committee of Public Accounts than had previously been given. A huge amount of additional work was necessary. Everything had to be...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (6 Dec 2012)

Eoghan Murphy: Now that we have the critical review of the Local Government Audit Service and the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General in front of us, will we discuss that at this meeting?

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