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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: To be clear, I absolutely understand that it is a big issue. Mental health well-being is a very big issue. I commend the fact that there are supports in place for students, but that is not my point. It is a really good initiative by universities and institutes of technology if that is what they are doing. However, we are looking at expenditure line by line and I see a pattern year on year...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Can I just say-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Sure.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I appreciate that, but it is still a huge amount of money over a six year time period. The final line item I have a query on certainly raised an eyebrow for me. In 2015-2016 there was payment of €10,500 for Cork IT to Brian Murray SC for legal opinion. It just says, "Legal opinion PAC". It should be borne in mind I put the question to a former president of Cork IT, when he was in...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I am somewhat satisfied with that response. Did the allegations Mr. Gallagher mentioned specifically come through the Committee of Public Accounts?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Thank you.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Gallagher spoke about the information that came forward from whistleblowers and that in his opinion there was no substance to the allegations that were made. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Then there was a subsequent KPMG review. Was this review looking at those allegations and other allegations or was it specifically around the allegations we are referring to?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Did they publish their report?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Then there was a separate report on risk management, or a review of risk management activities in October 2016. Is this correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The Cork Institute of Technology review of risk management activities.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Was that carried out by PricewaterhouseCoopers?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: This review showed there were difficulties around the risk strategy not being defined, inadequate governance and assurance of risk management activities and inadequate risk identification, monitoring and reporting. There was also detail on the rating and implication, grade 2, that the risk strategy or risk appetite of the institute was not well understood and that decision-making may have...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The report said that there is currently no defined risk strategy setting out CIT's risk appetite, risk objectives or the alignment between risk and the overall strategics plan.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Some of the allegations that were made at the time were to do with expenses of senior management and issues around paintings. Were all of the key individuals who were involved in the decision-making on these matters consulted directly as part of any internal examination of these issues by the institute or by KPMG? Was it the case that they went solely to higher management to seek a view or...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Desktop reviews do not always give us the answers that we need. I believe that when substantial allegations are made, a desktop review is unlikely to recover anything of substance.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: We will never know because it was a desktop review. We will deal presently with a separate line of questioning that I have with regard to a different institute where there was a much more extensive examination of issues, beyond desktop reviews that were previously done, which showed up issues that the other reports did not show up. Desktop reviews do not always capture the full extent of...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I have two issues to put to Mr. Love, one of which we discussed while in private session. Perhaps he will respond as best he can while we are in public session. It concerns a draft report sitting with the HEA about Waterford Institute of Technology and intellectual property. The HEA furnished the committee with a more global examination of intellectual property, which we will get to at...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I accept that due diligence is important, especially from a legal perspective, and that the HEA must do this. The report was due in November and the Committee of Public Accounts is still waiting for the report as we go into June. Does Mr. Love accept that a seven-month time gap is more than late? Does he see this as acceptable from the committee's perspective? We focused on this issue and...

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