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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It would have no consequence whatsoever for the institute, given its budget. The bottom line is that the taxpayer paid for this €13,000 event, €6,000 of which was outside the rules. It does not matter. The money can be moved around from the HEA to an institute or a university, but the fact remains that €6,000 was spent in an inappropriate way. Is there any avenue open...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: But not from the institute. Is there any way to ensure neither the taxpayer nor any public body will be liable for the €6,000?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: That is my point. At the end of the day, it does not matter whether the HEA or the institute pays for it; a public body is still going to foot the bill, irrespective of what the board does. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Dr. Love is missing my point entirely. I think he understands what I am saying. It does not matter whether the HEA or the university pay for it. If a public body pays for it-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It really is no sanction whatsoever. That is part of the problem in dealing with all of these issues. It might seem a little frivolous because in this case the amount is only €13,000. A report was produced and an examination carried out. It was found that €6,000 was outside the spending guidelines, but the taxpayer has to foot the bill anyway. There is no sanction for...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: One of the things in the letter we have just received leads me on to my next set of questions. I approve of point 5, that in May 2018 potential cost savings in hosting events in-house are being reviewed. Doing more in-house and saving money is a good idea. We know from our own work that €150 million of taxpayers' money was spent on private consultant and legal fees over six years by...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: We found that to be an astounding figure. I will use Cork Institute of Technology as an example because we have a year by year breakdown of how that money was spent. In the spirit of doing more in-house, will Dr. O'Connor tell me what PR section, unit or body the institute has?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Is it just one person?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Is it a private company?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Therefore, there is nobody directly employed. The work is outsourced.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: What type of HR unit does the institute have? How is it structured and how many people are in it?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Therefore, there is a head.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: How many others are employed in the unit?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Is there an IT section?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: How is it structured? Is there a head of IT services?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: How many people are employed in the section?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I am looking at a breakdown for Cork Institute of Technology of money spent on outside consultants every year. It strikes me when I look at the figure of €150 million and the institute's spend on consultants that the institutes cannot open an envelope without asking an outside group to give an opinion. It is amazing on what the money is spent and the amount spent. That raises...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The consultant is obviously giving opinions on what it is doing. Is that it?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: What is the reference to counselling about?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I am not going to name names, but in going through the list there is a reference to "counselling - €35,000", as well as to sums of €28,000, €25,000 and €12,000, all in the one year. Surely somebody could have looked at this issue and said it might be better to employ counsellors, that it would save money. The same is true of IT services. Although there is an IT...

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