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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: There is a competition ongoing. Who was the previous incumbent?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. Cahillane for that clarification. I now wish to focus on roads and schools and I will turn first to the issue of transport. My questions are based on the documentation supplied to the committee by Transport Infrastructure Ireland. Reference was made to the list of the ten areas where some work has been done as part of the post-project reviews. The list includes the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: When would the contracts typically have been signed? Was it two or three years out? I am sure that construction was at least two years on all the projects.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: I understand that. There has, however, been a little bit of a myth that has been going around here today that these became popular during the recession when the State encouraged this type of finance. I do not believe this is the case. These projects were in their height in the good times before the recession. When the recession came along many of the projects that had been in the pipeline...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Am I correct in saying this? That was referred to several times at the committee today.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: I know that Mr. Kennedy did not say it. I know who said it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: The Comptroller and Auditor General was dealing with cost overruns into €16 billion and €17 billion at that time. That was the topic when the money was flying. Most of the projects did not come through during the recessionary period. I want to take the witness through the document he gave. There is confusion in this regard for a lot of people who are watching. There is a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Okay, that is fine. The value for money figures included in the submission are at that early stage of the process.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: I point this out in case somebody would get the impression that those value for money assessments related to post-project reviews. They were actually value for money reviews before the commencement of projects.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: I want people to understand that because some people could very easily think the value for money assessments were done on these ten schemes post project. They were not. The assessments were done as a comparison. I refer the committee to pages 12 to 14, inclusive, of the briefing document. The information looks at post-project reviews. Page 12 contains the list I have read out. Page 13...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: There are fewer junctions and so on.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Did Mr. Kennedy put a value on that? How does he work that into this? It is intangible.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Without being awfully crude, I will not ask the question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Pardon?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: One would think I was getting ghoulish now. I am raising the point that there are road safety and financial benefits.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: To move on to Mr. Kennedy's conclusions, they state that although no economic appraisal was carried out, that was done in many cases a number of years prior to the contract being awarded with no interim reappraisal to account for changes in costs and traffic forecasts. An economic appraisal was carried out on day one. It might have been years before the project got off the ground. One of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am trying to put balance in this. There are some good PPPs too.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: I am still on the roads. I want to move on to page 28 of that document. The reason I ask this goes without saying. It is the Portlaoise PPP scheme. Without getting too detailed, will somebody explain page 28? The witnesses have given us the ten value for money assessment analyses on doing a road project by the traditional method versus the PPP. There are ten pages there. There is a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: They were for internal use.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Seán Fleming: Give us a little help, then.

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