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Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Deputy O'Brien just outlined one to Mr. O'Brien over the past five minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The Deputy just gave Mr. O'Brien a system. Mr. O'Brien described a systems failure as opposed to the Deputy's description of a systemic failure. He just went through that for five minutes and Mr. O'Brien is messing around now.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Would it be perjury?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: On the memorandum to which Mr. O'Brien referred and which he said would be published or furnished to the committee, was it passed to the Department of Health and, if so, when?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Can the Department of Health confirm it?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Therefore, the witnesses do not know.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: How could Mr. Breslin not know?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I will come to Mr. Breslin later. On the circular that we discussed, does Mr. O'Brien believe individuals made mistakes in formulating it?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Who crafted the circular.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Was Mr. John Gleeson one of the people who had crafted the circular? He certainly had responsibility.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Did he make mistakes?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. O'Brien does know that Vicky Phelan's legal team has accused the HSE of a cover-up. One reason is this circular which, as we said, gave discretion to GPs. At no point, at the time the circular was issued, did the HSE as a corporate body decide that all patients must or should be informed. It is amazing that even today, as Mr. O'Brien sits here, he is not in a position to tell me...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. O'Brien allowed him to answer this question at the health committee. Mr. Gleeson said, "I was involved with the then clinical director of the screening programme in compiling it,"; therefore, he was responsible. The circular gave three instructions. I want Mr. O'Brien to take this in for one moment, as I am sure he has already. The first instruction was that a copy of the audit be...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: No. It is not futile.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It is central to this issue.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I do not think that it is acceptable and will explain why. Mr. O'Brien has come to the committee weeks after the scandal frightened the women of Ireland and days after a number of the women affected have asked him to stand down from his position. From today, we know that Mr. O'Brien believes a number of individuals made mistakes, but he is not prepared to say who they are. Even when it is...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The same sequence again.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: No, I am asking if that is correct. In Mr. O'Brien's opinion, it is a systems failure, but in my opinion it is a systemic failure. Is that accurate?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Can I make a small point?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It was outrageously disingenuous of Mr. O'Brien to make such sweeping comments about the media. It is an outrageous comment given that his organisation has not been very quick to give good journalists information when they have sought it. It is not very good about giving information to the public. To make sweeping generalisations about the work of the media speaks volumes about Mr. O'Brien...

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