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Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: It is the Accounting Officer in Waterford.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Ó Foghlú, I am sure, knows the nature of that. It is a matter of fact that 50 people engaged with this process. It is a matter of fact that they expressed concerns. If there is a draft report that there is a fear of litigation, then that speaks for itself, in terms of some of what was in the report. I am aghast that it has gone to the Attorney General's office. This is...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Did the Department at any point advise the HEA not to publish the report?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: There was a draft report that was subsequently modified, as we know. There is a modified version which we did not know about until now. Did the Department offer the HEA any advice or give any direction on that modified version of the report being published or not?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: So Mr. Beausang has not, so it is "No".

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: What was the position then when Dr. Love then said that this was now with the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I am going to come back to this and will ask to put down for the second round, as I want to deal specifically with those issues and tease some of that out. I am very alarmed with what I have heard so far. This has been a right mess. It is ridiculous how this has worked out but I will come back to it. If I can come to Dr. Love's resignation email, a letter that he sent to Mr. Horgan who...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Why was this?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Can I end by talking Dr. Love through those individually? I am interested in what he means by all of that. I understand what he is saying but it is important for him to expand and to put on the record what he means. He said that the actual nature of his job militates against any realistic opportunity to deliver much-needed strategic development in the sector. This is what we were...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Why is that Dr. Love?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Is it the legislation solely or is it the dynamic, the relationship between the Department and the HEA?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: That is one of the frustrations he has faced.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Dr. Love has stated this goes back to the legislation and the powers the HEA has. Dr. Love has also said there is a lack of role clarity between the HEA and the Department of Education and Skills.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Let me be clear about this. Is the lack of clarity down to the fact there is general confusion or is it down to the fact that the Department decides it is its turf and it does not want the HEA doing what it sees as its job?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Is there any level of preciousness by the Department and protecting its organisation and what it does and stating something is its role and it does not want the HEA doing what it sees as its role and the HEA may have a different view?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: This concerns us because we are all here in good faith and we have shone a spotlight on the third level sector. We have always done so with a view that the sector has many good people who do a lot of good work but we had concerns about a number of areas and we tried to shine a spotlight on them. We struggled at times to understand who was responsible for what. We did a periodic report on...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: -----and we raised some of these issues. When the head of the HEA resigned and cited the reasons he did so to the Committee of Public Accounts and spoke about serious concerns on a lack of clarity, not being able to deliver much needed strategic development in the sector and a failure to resolve overall funding issues, this concerned members of the committee. As the Secretary General of the...

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: I have no interest in Mr. Ó Foghlú's views on Dr. Love. I want to know about the issues in the email and the concerns Dr. Love raised.

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: What are the difficulties and challenges from Mr. Ó Foghlú's perspective?

Public Accounts Committee: HEA Financial Statements 2017 (18 Oct 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Ó Foghlú is the Secretary General of the Department of Education and Skills, which has responsibility for overall funding of the education sector. I would argue that even though the HEA has a governance and oversight role so does the Department and there is a lack of clarity. If I were in the shoes of the Secretary General and I read an email from the head of the HEA that...

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