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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I will pick up on that point before I move to the wider and substantive issues of Brexit and the tax issue. The Minister mentioned Mr. Quinn, who was the chief procurement officer in the Department of Public Expenditure Reform. Mr. Quinn served time on the board but was also chairperson of the finance committee. The Minister stated previously that he was on the board in a personal...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: He comes under Circular 12/2010 which outlines the responsibilities of individuals nominated to boards, particularly his responsibility, where there is a significant public policy issue at stake, to request the chairperson to notify the Minister or, failing that, to notify the Minister himself.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: From the Minister's discussions with Mr. Quinn, which I presume happened recently-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: -----was he able to ascertain when Mr. Quinn first became aware that the board was in discussions with the Department to alert it of the overrun? Second, when did the board or the finance committee Mr. Quinn chairs become aware of an overrun in that project?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The finance committee was not aware of an overrun until the summer.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: When we add all this up, the big question we need to ask ourselves is how we can ensure that we get value for money and that projects are cancelled. There is also the issue of how Deputy Donohoe has performed as the Minister in charge of the Department sanctioning this project. Deputy Donohoe is the line Minister for the Department that sanctions this project. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister does not wash his hands of it however, or at least he should not do so. It would appear that happened in this case. What is the Minister's responsibility in terms of monitoring a project afterwards? We have a huge overrun of close to €500 million and it could increase. It appears the Minister was completely kept in the dark. It seems he did not have his hands on the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I am not looking at the wider general aspects of the use of public money. I am trying to determine what the Minister's specific responsibility was. He mentioned that he had a responsibility to track this project. I understand that monthly reports were supposed to be made on this project. The Minister had a responsibility to track this project but his chief procurement officer knew that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: When was the last time prior to November that the Minister got an update on the national children's hospital?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I concur with Deputy Michael McGrath. If I was the Minister for Finance, I would be absolutely seething. Let us go back to the point in November when the Minister became aware of this. Several weeks before that, one of the key issues he was dealing with was the budget. One of the key issues in the budget was Department of Health expenditure and the supplementary budget, which was not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Will they go ahead in the original timeframe?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Was it the Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris, who personally brought this to the attention of the Minister?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I am trying to figure out if there were enough red flags in the Department. Obviously, that was not the case up to that point. Was this a routine meeting, a meeting instigated by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform or-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: It just came up?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I understand that the Minister of Health is a colleague of the Minister's. That said, is the Minister surprised that, in his direct engagement with the Minister for Health during the budget process and in identifying the Supplementary Estimate needed for the Department of Health, the Minister, Deputy Harris, did not inform him of what he was aware of at that time, namely, that the largest...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Perhaps I can put it like this. Let us for one minute imagine that it was the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Shane Ross, who was in charge of this project. What would the Minister say to him?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I would say the position would be very different. There is a bit of back-covering going on here. This is ridiculous.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Nobody disputes that. The reality, however, is that there was awareness of this matter. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform cannot sit here and say it is okay for a Minister to be aware of a serious overrun on the major capital project of our time and not inform the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform or the line Minister, particularly in the middle of a budgetary process...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I move onto the issue of Brexit. We have asked questions on Brexit on numerous occasions but let us park the point that we all want to see the withdrawal agreement ratified and agree that is the best option to mitigate against Brexit. However, there is concern that the withdrawal agreement may not be the end product and we will have a disorderly Brexit. The Minister spoke about the impact...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach (5 Feb 2019)

Pearse Doherty: What if the goods come across the Border into this State? What if they come from Newry to Dundalk or from Strabane to Lifford?

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