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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: We move on to Deputy Hourigan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: I apologise if the witnesses have already dealt with some of my questions, but I am finding some of the information difficult to pick up. I get that the current system is not acceptable. The idea of moving from paper to digital and access for researchers to files and so on makes sense. Some of that is going on at present, but not to the extent to which it should be. Highlighting gaps in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: Is Mr. Lennon saying that everyone has one at present, but it is not necessarily in the system?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: Has a hospital number.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: The problem with the PPSN is that one cannot use it legally. Is that part of the legislation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: It is called an individual health indicator number, but the individual cannot get access to it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: In the new system proposed, we will be moving to a PPSN. When I arrive at the hospital, my PPSN will be used rather than the hospital number. Is the PPSN the new number I will be assigned? If I go to St. James' Hospital, the Mater or wherever else, will I be using my PPSN as my hospital number and my health identifier number?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: Several people are trying to get in. I suggest that we go into private session at the end of the meeting to talk about where we will go in respect of the general scheme. This would be helpful. Again, if members indicate they wish to come in on the second round, I will do that. Turning to what is happening now, this is about information. What is the current situation regarding insurance...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: Mr. O'Connor spoke about who will have access and legitimate third parties in this context. Who are we talking about here?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: In the past when people got married, they had to change names, although this is different now. It was also necessary to change PPS numbers. Could this cause problems because some people might have two PPS numbers, although this is not meant to be the case anymore? Will this impact the system?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: Mention was also made of sharing information with other countries. We have a unique relationship with the North of Ireland. Co-operation is in place right across the health system, education and concerning people working in Border areas who travel back and forth, etc. Is it envisaged that the systems in the North, which is under the NHS, and our own system will in future allow people to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: Again, perhaps Mr. O'Connor could give the committee a note on this issue at some stage. Turning to the European health insurance card, EHIC, this is one of those important documents people need when travelling abroad or whatever. How will this change in the context of the unique health identifier? Will it be added to that card? Could we not use that number instead of-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: Plus about 12 other letters.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: Sound. I call Deputy Cullinane.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: It is a hospital number.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: I will give an example of a situation where I, as a politician, am acting on behalf of someone who has mental health issues, someone who cannot read or write or in one of several other situations of which there is a list. Will this system change in the context of allowing me to get access in this regard? Will the situation improve, deteriorate or be much the same in the context of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: I mentioned the idea of data access and Deputy Hourigan referred to researchers. On the surface, it all sounds very good but I asked about the likes of insurance companies and whether they would be one of the stakeholders. For instance, if there are researchers and the eircode, etc., is known, could there be a negative impact? For instance, in a particular area, such as a deprived area or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: I get the idea of building a system. Witnessed referred to the IHI and stated that number will not be used. Whether we change it to the PPSN, we are building a system that can itself read. It can update itself. It is not impossible for computers to read 20 numbers or whatever else; that is what computers do. Humans are not as good at it. If a system is built, it can be added to and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: Yes. I gave an example of insurance companies. If someone lives in a particular area where there are a number of break-ins, his or her insurance premium will increase. In this instance, if someone lives in an area where there are many people with obesity, for example, it follows that insurance companies may point to that and it could be a negative.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of the Health Information Bill 2023: Department of Health (10 May 2023)

Seán Crowe: Perhaps we will end on that positive note. I thank the Department for assisting the committee in its pre-legislative scrutiny of the health information Bill. We will be in touch with the Department shortly about this matter. I propose that the committee suspend and then discuss the matter in private session. Is that agreed? Agreed.

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