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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Yes, the Wi-Fi system was capable of connecting, because it did. However, that did not indicate that GSOC was under surveillance. It is quite clear from the conclusion of Verrimus that GSOC’s Wi-Fi was not under surveillance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Yes, it has. The issue of the Wi-Fi is the Verrimus conclusion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The Wi-Fi-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Rits has given different explanations. Verrimus itself has stated the Wi-Fi was an “anomaly”, not an issue of surveillance. I cannot put it any more simply than that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Yet again, Rits has given a different explanation from Verrimus for all three threats.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Deputy Clare Daly has given us what she understands to be what was said by Kieran FitzGerald. Kieran FitzGerald, when on “Prime Time”, was asked: "In your statement last night you said there was no evidence of Garda misconduct. Why would you say that in the first place if you weren’t thinking that?". He answered: Because the reason we said that last night - and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: No, Chairman. I shall give them to the High Court judge. GSOC does not want the reports published.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: No, I did not. I published the brief I received from GSOC. These are security reports which I will furnish in full to the High Court judge who will have the technical expertise relating to these matters.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I believe it is appropriate that the High Court judge be given all of the information and documentation in this case. I am conscious that Verrimus itself issued a statement, in which I had no hand or part, stating it was not in a position to make public comment on this. I could not answer questions put to me by this committee without referencing the information available to me that I have...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Perhaps you will do me the courtesy of letting me conclude. I intend to furnish these reports to the High Court judge. Let him make of them what is appropriate in the context of the technical expertise he has. I understand Verrimus has said it is willing to answer any questions raised of the High Court judge. Rits will do the same. GSOC has said it will co-operate with the review.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I would like to deal with all of these points. The Deputy said that GSOC is toothless on my watch but on my watch GSOC produced the Kieran Boylan report - that was not toothless.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The Deputy has asked me a question to which I am responding. GSOC has produced the Kieran Boylan report and its annual reports and it has - as it is entirely appropriate and as it is entitled to do, when necessary, as was referenced last week - voiced public criticism of matters of concern. It is not toothless, it has been independent, assertive and has raised issues. The chairman of GSOC,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I genuinely cannot answer that question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: No. This is one of the reasons I have referred the matter to a High Court judge. The Cabinet has agreed that we should do so. I cannot adjudicate between the two of them. I am not shooting at Verrimus and singing the praises of Rits, I am just pointing out that there is a very substantial variation in the conclusions reached.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Absolutely true. Rits was given all of the material and asked to carry out a peer review. The Senator would be familiar with peer reviews-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: -----how they are conducted and what happens. I repeat that I am not adjudicating between these two. It is a matter now for a High Court judge to consider in order to ascertain whether there are inaccuracies and whether, perhaps, things were said that gave rise to misunderstandings. I cannot adjudicate on them. I do not have the technical knowledge to adjudicate. It would be completely...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I am also not shooting at anybody. It was the conclusion of Verrimus, not Rits, on the Wi-Fi that has given rise to so much conversation and coverage. It was Verrimus which ultimately determined that it was an anomaly, that it was not really a threat and, for some unexplained reason, that some sort of random linking in was occurring from another premises. Verrimus did not identify the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Yes, but obviously there are differences between them. What is the old saying? Is it that experts differ? I do not know. They say it about doctors and that it can have fatal consequences.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: No. We have already travelled this issue at great length.

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