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Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: Does the Deputy have another question?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: I thank the Minister of State. I will ask him a few questions one at a time to give him an opportunity to answer. What was done differently in 2018 than in 2017 to mitigate the overrun? The 2017 overrun was €200 million. This year, it is €700 million. What was failed to be achieved in 2018? Has there been a change in how the health service plan, which is yet to be...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: The Irish Fiscal Advisory Council maintains that there is weak planning in the HSE and the Department of Health to anticipate expected and unexpected events. At the end of the year, there is an expectation that, if the health service runs over budget by €700 million, it will be met and carried over into the following year in the hope that, in the following year, the budget will come...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: The point I am making is that if the Department repeatedly does what it did last year and expects a different result, it is probably being over-optimistic. For instance, there was a shortfall of €85 million in income from private insurance companies because they ran a campaign advising patients that they should not be admitted as private patients unless they felt there would be a...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: That is the point I am making. We must change the structure-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: -----of the health service and reorient it away from everything being sent-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: Our health service is designed for people to end up in hospital. That is the default position for everything.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: The design of our health service should be such that everyone ends up in the community and only goes to hospital in complex cases or acute emergencies. How will this year's service plan start to reorient the service away from the expensive hospital system and towards the less expensive community care system?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: Deputy Jack Chambers should allow the Minister of State to answer the question.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: Front-line staff such as doctors, public health and other nurses and community intervention teams have indicated that they are overburdened by bureaucratic management beyond what is necessary to deliver the service. In fact, the bureaucracy inhibits their delivery of services because the amount of work which they must do to comply with the increasing bureaucracy required takes them away from...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: I thank the Minister of State. I call Deputy Durkan.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: I cannot control how long it takes the Deputy to ask his questions. He had the floor for 15 minutes. I am moving to Deputy Durkan. Deputy Jack Chambers can come back in later. The committee can sit until 1.45 p.m.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: Can I come back to the pure Estimates again? The overrun in the various regions ranges from €86 million to €118 million. The Minister of State has spoken about the causes of these overruns. It is a demand-led service and there is an unpredictability about various flu epidemics, storms and snowstorms etc. I put it to the Minister of State that there is a predictability to...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: Surely the Minister of State can predict the cost of looking after that variability? That is the issue. Each year, the prediction of that variability is off by €600 million or €700 million. We are spending as much money as the average country in the OECD on health but we are getting substantially poorer outcomes. Continuing to do what we are doing, as I said before, is not...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: Does Deputy Durkan wish to ask a question?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: I will return to the Estimates. There has been a substantial increase in the cost of the treatment abroad scheme. Many people are going to Belfast and people are also going to England and other places. Could the Minister of State talk us through that? The National Treatment Purchase Fund is providing services outside the public system for public patients and the treatment abroad scheme is...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: From what budget does the money for the treatment abroad scheme come?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: I asked about the individual or combined costs of the treatment abroad scheme and the NTPF because it is an additional cost to the State outside our public hospital system.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: Is it possible to get a breakdown of the type of procedures supplied through the treatment abroad scheme and the NTPF?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2018
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(5 Dec 2018)

Michael Harty: Is it possible to get the cost of those procedures through the NTPF and the treatment abroad scheme, for example, the cost of a cataract or a hip replacement?

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