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Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: The Deputy is over time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: I am sorry for interrupting, but there is a Vote in the House. We will take a 30 minute break.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: On a point of information, could Ms Browne from the Chief State Solicitor's office take me through what happens when a Department, in this case the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, refers cases to the Chief State Solicitor's office? The Department does the analysis, it comes to the point where it believes there is a case and it gives Ms Browne's office the file. What happens then?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: Does every case that Ms Browne's office receives go directly to a senior counsel?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: Is that in-house counsel or is it brought in?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: Therefore, all the cases that would have been referred to Ms Browne's office go for further counsel advice and then, based on that, her office decides on what action to take. How long does it take for the Chief State Solicitor's office to go through that process, from the point of getting the file to referring it for a counsel opinion?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: What then is the cost for counsel opinion? Is that factored into the figures that we have here before us?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: There were two files that did not proceed to issue of summons at a total cost of €2,381. These are counsel fees only. There would be no other fees, although there must be fees attached to it from the Chief State Solicitor's office. Ms Browne would have time involved there, but not much. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: That is the point I am coming to, that in each of the cases, not only these ones but other ones, there would be a cost. There is not a total cost per case, as one would find in a solicitor's office.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: The costs that Ms Browne has provided are not the total costs.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: These figures do not represent the total cost. That is the important point, at any rate, from my perspective. If it comes to it, who decides not to go forward with the case? Is it the Department or the Chief State Solicitor's office that would decide not proceed with this? Does Ms Browne's office tell the Department if something happens in court or along the line? Is that the way it...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: The Department gets the counsel opinion.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: Ms Browne's office gets the counsel opinion.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: Ms Browne's office tells the Department and the Department decides whether to go ahead with that case or not.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: How many cases has the Department, maybe on counsel opinion, decided not to go ahead with?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: Can you give us a breakdown of all that activity? It is not just one Department. It is the Chief State Solicitor's office going for counsel opinion and going back to the Department. I am trying to find out how many cases were referred to the Chief State Solicitor's office. In how many of those cases was counsel opinion sought? How many cases thereafter did the Department decide to go...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: Is that the one where it says "Ten files resulting in strike-out or dismissal"?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: Roughly 32 files were withdrawn prior to full court hearing-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: -----and ten files resulting in strike-out or dismissal.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine
(18 Jun 2015)

John McGuinness: The next question is about compensation. How many cases did Ms Browne's office have where compensation was agreed whereby the person being brought to court, or who had charges against them, received compensation, because something went wrong with the case or whatever? Was there anything such as that?

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