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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: How is it structured? Is there a head of IT services?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: How many people are employed in the section?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I am looking at a breakdown for Cork Institute of Technology of money spent on outside consultants every year. It strikes me when I look at the figure of €150 million and the institute's spend on consultants that the institutes cannot open an envelope without asking an outside group to give an opinion. It is amazing on what the money is spent and the amount spent. That raises...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The consultant is obviously giving opinions on what it is doing. Is that it?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: What is the reference to counselling about?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I am not going to name names, but in going through the list there is a reference to "counselling - €35,000", as well as to sums of €28,000, €25,000 and €12,000, all in the one year. Surely somebody could have looked at this issue and said it might be better to employ counsellors, that it would save money. The same is true of IT services. Although there is an IT...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: To be clear, I absolutely understand that it is a big issue. Mental health well-being is a very big issue. I commend the fact that there are supports in place for students, but that is not my point. It is a really good initiative by universities and institutes of technology if that is what they are doing. However, we are looking at expenditure line by line and I see a pattern year on year...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Can I just say-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Sure.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I appreciate that, but it is still a huge amount of money over a six year time period. The final line item I have a query on certainly raised an eyebrow for me. In 2015-2016 there was payment of €10,500 for Cork IT to Brian Murray SC for legal opinion. It just says, "Legal opinion PAC". It should be borne in mind I put the question to a former president of Cork IT, when he was in...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I am somewhat satisfied with that response. Did the allegations Mr. Gallagher mentioned specifically come through the Committee of Public Accounts?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Thank you.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Gallagher spoke about the information that came forward from whistleblowers and that in his opinion there was no substance to the allegations that were made. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Then there was a subsequent KPMG review. Was this review looking at those allegations and other allegations or was it specifically around the allegations we are referring to?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Did they publish their report?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Then there was a separate report on risk management, or a review of risk management activities in October 2016. Is this correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The Cork Institute of Technology review of risk management activities.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Was that carried out by PricewaterhouseCoopers?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

David Cullinane: This review showed there were difficulties around the risk strategy not being defined, inadequate governance and assurance of risk management activities and inadequate risk identification, monitoring and reporting. There was also detail on the rating and implication, grade 2, that the risk strategy or risk appetite of the institute was not well understood and that decision-making may have...

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