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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Can Mr. Dolan explain that to me? Why did Permanent TSB not look at that structure?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The recognition is that the NPL risk is now no longer with the bank.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The advice Permanent TSB got was that it could not retain servicing of the mortgage, which would mean that the bank could not service them and would have to employ an agent like Pepper or whatever. Was Permanent TSB advised that it could not retain ownership of the mortgages? That is one of the core issues.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Sorry, can Mr. Dolan say that again?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Can Mr. Dolan explain that to me? This would be instead of securitisation and instead of transferring in six months. This would be the vehicle. Why was such a vehicle not possible?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I understand the current position.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Rather than the structure Permanent TSB entered into, which involved handing over legal title of properties and having a different servicing agent to deal with them, why did the bank not look at a securitisation arrangement that would retain legal title but had another servicing agent? That would have made more sense if the advice the bank received was to the effect that it should have an...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: It is not only a question of servicing. Disposing of legal title was required to get de-recognition. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: That is the key thing. It is the issue around risk. If a bank is setting up a special purpose vehicle, then basically the economic interests of the pool of portfolios is in place. Whoever the note-holders are, then the risk is with them. The economic benefit goes to them but the risk is also with them. Therefore, the number of non-performing loans should reduce. I understand that no...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I want to clarify the point because I have followed everything Mr. Masding has said up to now. If the warehoused portion is more than 20%, then it is deemed as a non-performing loan. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: The other banks set up two separate contracts. My understanding was a contract was in place for the split and the non-split portion. There was a relationship between them. Was that not the way the other banks got around the fact that the portion of split warehoused loans was above 20%?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I know that. I know how vulnerable the bank was and continues to be.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Some of the choices earlier on in respect of how those mortgages were split deemed them to be non-performing at a later stage. That is not the same scenario for the other banks.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate the information Mr. Masding has put on the record. I remind him - I imagine he is reminded - that what he has said is contrary to what he said previously when we quizzed the matter. I do not have the transcripts before me but from memory the suggestion from Permanent TSB was that until borrowers reverted to the original contract, the loan would be deemed non-performing. That...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Now, borrowers do not have to go back to the original contract as long as the splits are-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Will Mr. Masding take me through the non-performing loans? A total of 10% of loans are non-performing. How many properties are at issue? There are 2,409 principal dwelling houses in arrears of 90 days or more and 526 buy-to-let properties. Obviously, far more are deemed to be non-performing loans. Will Mr. Masding give me an understanding of the categories? What falls into a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Yes. What makes up the 10%? Where do they fall? I presume all of those in arrears of 90 days or more are deemed non-performing loans. The number is approximately 3,000.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: A total of 3,000 are 90 days or more in arrears. Where are the remainder?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: Let us go over that further breakdown. We have arrears of between one and 90 days and then arrears of more than 90 days. That makes up 5,500. What about the 4,500 other loans? How many of those 4,500 fall into the category of those whose loans are restructured and who are meeting the terms of their restructuring?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
Matters Relating to the Banking Sector: Permanent TSB
(9 Apr 2019)

Pearse Doherty: I assume it would be the vast majority.

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