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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: The Department is also awaiting clarification on payments for 1,000 tutor hours that were not timetabled, estimated at €60,000, payments to teachers for non-teaching work, allowances paid to ineligible learners, additional travel allowances paid and the hiring of a person to drive a bus who did not have an appropriate background check. Has any clarification been received from the VEC...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: That is the only outstanding issue, is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: In terms of those incidents in Macroom and what is happening now with County Cork VEC, what level of concern would Mr. Ó Foghlú have regarding the VEC?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Are we walking about a systems failure here?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Does Mr. Ó Foghlú believe the VEC intentionally misled the Department on the lease arrangement for the Youthreach centre?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: It is not the first time that the Department got wrong information. Blaming a system can sometimes be the easy option but sometimes there can be a culture of failure within an organisation. We have seen that before - quite a lot - in society. It is bit more difficult to detect but it is a lot more poisonous. One wonders if there comes a point when the Department has to decide to step in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: How long is the Department prepared to wait? The issues that arose were brought to the attention of this committee and the Department over 12 months ago, is that not correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Something needs to happen.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Is there anything else of which Mr.Ó Foghlú is aware, in terms of reports or allegations, that may be of concern relating to the VEC or operations under its aegis?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Can Mr. Ó Foghlú comment on them?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Sorry, I missed the latter point. Plans for what?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Has the Department given a deadline to the VEC to come back to it regarding the loan for €430,000?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: It would be helpful to get an update to the committee as soon as possible regarding what is happening here. We are starting to see a pattern with this particular VEC and the way it operates. It would be good to keep the pressure on from the committee's side so that we can be clear as to what the money has been spent on or, if there are irregularities, how they are being addressed by the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I wish to raise the issue of the change to the pupil-teacher ratio in private schools that was implemented in a previous budget. Has the Department had contacts from any private schools seeking to enter into the State system as a result of their position having changed over the last two years?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: I thank the Chairman. As I had to attend a number of votes, I apologise if I go over any territory that has already been discussed. If I do, please tell me and I will move on to something else. Returning to something that was said at the beginning when Deputy Gerald Nash was asking about the overpayments to teachers, the Secretary General spoke about the difficulty in managing the payroll...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: What does that mean?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Does that mean that every two weeks 10,000 teachers are sick for a period of time?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: What percentage of the comers and goers are a result of sick leave in terms of substitution?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: Has that question never been asked? Ten thousand is-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 18 - Salary Overpayments to Teachers
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(28 Feb 2013)

Eoghan Murphy: At second level on a particular week there is a requirement for substitution because the geography teacher is not in. More often than not another teacher will come in and take that class, whether qualified or not. He or she will sit in and either the students will do what they wish or the teacher will try to take them through the next chapter as best they can in their studies. In that...

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